EP 195 - w Osunyoyin (& Chelsea): Ifa Is The Wisdom, Ifa Is The Word, Ifa Is Life

"Your spirit is seeking to find where it belongs."

Amy Torok
Jun 8, 2023
46 min read
Black WitchcraftDivinationWitches Found

In this episode, Amy sits down for a delightful conversation with Godmother and Goddaughter, Osunyoyin and Chelsea, to talk about Osunyoyin's path to becoming a priestess of Ifa!


"In my mind I knew I'd have to go back to Africa."


Osunyoyin aka Iya Linda is an Apetibi, Iyanifa and Iyalorisha in the Yoruba religion and has been initiated into Ifa for 30 years. She was initiated into Ifa, Obatala, Osun and other Orisas in Nigeria in the 90’s. She has recently formed an Ile called Gbogbo (pronounced bogbo) Orisa, which means All Orisa.

As the Iya of GboGbo Orisa, Iya Linda provides a safe and confidential space for people on their spiritual journey through Ifa and emphasizes the importance of family and community. She also helps people solve life and spiritual issues by using Ifa divination and facilitates connections between Yoruba high priests in Nigeria, known as Babalowos/Babalorisas, to people in need of guidance. She believes that getting to know yourself spiritually is just as important as getting to know yourself in the physical realm so it's best not to go on that journey alone.

When Iya Linda is not being a godmother and Ifa priestess, you can find her enjoying karaoke, cooking, or spending time with family and friends.

Contact Osunyoyin at GBOGBOORISA@GMAIL.COM

"Your spirit is seeking to find where it belongs."



 If you want to support the Missing Witches project, find out how @missingwitches.com.
Hello and welcome to another episode of The Missing Witches podcast. I'm so excited.

My heart is so full today because it's a family episode. We have a godparent and a godchild together here. Um, most of you probably remember a beautiful episode, an interview that I did with one Chelsea Hamlet, and I reached out to Chelsea to come back on the podcast and Chelsea was like, you know who you have to meet.

You know who you have to meet is my godmother, Osunyoyin. And so thank you so much, both of you for sitting down in circle with me today. Chelsea, can you reintroduce yourself to our listeners and then maybe, um, give your godmother the glowing praise that she deserves.

Always good to speak to you, Amy, and I'm really happy to be back on The Missing, which is podcast y'all.

Awesome, I was on the episode, talking about, the erotic blueprints and things of that nature. I'm no longer an erotic blueprint coach, but that is another story for another episode. Instead, I would like to, put myself, you know, on the back burner and highlight my very wonderful, fabulous godmother, Osunyoyin .

Um, I call her iya. So if you hear me say IYA on the episode, that is why Iya is actually a word for mom or mother figure, which, she definitely is to everyone who comes into her path, you know, so, huh. Has been initiated into Yoruba for, 30 years, which is not, um, something that many people can say. Um, she also got initiated with, um, in Africa.

So she went directly to Nigeria and she, um, her head Orisha is, um, Obatala as well as Oshun. So when she is not being a wonderful godmother and Yuba priestess, she could find her singing, whether at a karaoke bar or just around the house.

And she's also an amazing cook, which I love. And, she always, um, knows how to make you feel like family.

Because I'm also a part of her Elay, which we are, you know, is a few. There's a few of us then we're all her kids and we all acknowledge her as, um, our godmom or our second mom. So, without further ado, um, here is Ocean. Um, my beloved godmother and mentor friend and all the above, so,


aw Tito. Thank you Tito.

Well, I, I wanna thank you guys. Thank you Amy. Thank you Chelsea, for, for inviting me , my name is I, I have been initiated into the Yoruba religion, Yoruba religion of. For 30 years now. It's been 30 years since I've been initiated, but prior to that I was involved, whew, I wanna say altogether maybe 45 years. So that'll let you guys know that I'm only 20. I know I look like I'm 20, but, um, but it's, it's, it's been an awesome journey.

And, , you know, I just wanna say that I think that, , being initiated into Ifa and being involved in the Yoruba culture, , of IFA has, has been a big blessing to, to my life for sure.


Thank you so much. It's a blessing to have you here today. I, I wanna know, was this… obviously something you're born into in terms of your D n A and the, the d n A of your spirit, but, um, was this something that your family taught you?

How Did you discover Yoruba?


No, not at all. Um, one of the things, it's, it's really interesting that. As a young, as a young kid. So let's just start from when I was a kid. From, since I was a kid, I would have all kinds of dreams. I would see things, I would astro travel, all these different things. Like, well, wait a minute, what's going on?

You know, why am I seeing this? Why am I seeing that? Some things being good and some things being scary. Like, you know, you're walking down the hall and you know, you bump into someone who's not there. So it's like, wait a minute, what's going on? Or I, I know specifically when my father died, cuz my father died when I was about seven, that I used to see my father in the mirror.

And I would say to my mother, ma, I see daddy in the mirror as a little kid. She, what are you talking about? You know, you can't see your father in the mirror. But I was seeing my father in the mirror and my father was communicating with me. Um, on the average, you know, of course nowadays it's kind of hard to say, Hey, I see somebody in the mirror.

Or imagine a little kid telling their mommy, Hey, I see daddy in the mirror, and they're like, uh, it all depends on the family. Uh, I think we need to take our kid to see the doctor. Something is wrong, but there was nothing wrong. It was just that I had the eyes to see into a different realm. Um, as time went on, it just started to, how can I say?

My, the gifts that God gave me just happened to advance more and more and more and more, um, once I started to become older. It's funny that during the time when I was seeing these different things, there was a neighbor of mine, even as a small kid, and I was like, Hey, Dwayne, you know, I keep seeing this and that and this.

And he was like, oh, you know, you should talk to my mother about it. I was afraid of his mother. I mean, I was still, you know, a young kid. I was like, talk to your mother about this. That's the last person, that's the last person I wanna talk to. But I ended up mentioning it and, um, she says, oh, so you're spiritual.

This is what you need to do. Um, and some years went by, I noticed. First it starts off on the spiritual realm. You don't necessarily go and dive straight into Orisha. You have spiritual experiences. You know, you may see things, you may feel things while you're sleeping. You may have dreams that are giving you premonitions that come true, you know, different.

You start off like that. You don't start off with jumping directly into Orisha because the spiritual things will lead you to why are these things happening to me? And that's when you start to begin your search. There was a point in time where I was looking at tat cards, you know, but that wasn't my thing.

I mean, I was into crystals at one point in time, and I think that when you're really young, you just start sort of dipping and dabbing and all kinds of things to see where you fit, you know what feels like home. But for me, as I started to go to some spiritual events and things of that nature, I came across a spiritual house, which his mother was involved in, and they were dealing with African traditional religion.

It felt good to me. It felt like a fit for me. Matter of fact, it felt so much like a fit for me that in my mind I knew that I would have to go back to Africa at some point in time because there was a piece of me that I, I needed to reconnect with. So that's, that's kind of the beginning of, of how it started seeing things, asking questions with his mother, Hey, I'm experiencing this.

And she's like, oh, well that sounds like this. Um, you know, oh, well, I'm, I mean, there was some scary parts too, where sometimes you could be in your sleep and sleep and you can't get up. I don't know if you've ever had that experience, Amy, where you're sleeping and you're trying to get up and you can't get up.

I have never had sleep paralysis, but my spouse definitely has. So I've encountered it as, as closely as you can without experiencing that. Yeah. It's, it's terrifying. Terrifying. Yeah.

So, you know, when you experience stuff like that, you have to know what to do and you need to be able to talk with someone about it.

There are other instances where someone could be sleep and someone's having sex with you. No one is there. That's not a good thing. That is definitely not a good thing. You know, having sex with the invisible man against your will is definitely not a good thing, let alone with someone that you are not consenting to have sex with.

So a lot of those, um, different, um, experiences at some point in my life, I, I did experience, you know, um, oh, um, actually my friend's, uh, mom, she wasn't into Effa, she was into Santa, but that particular spiritual house had a connection to Nigeria. I think the person that was in charge at the time, uh, with that house, I think she would go to Nigeria every once in a while, but it was more so based.

Um, in terms of Santeria, cuz everybody was into Santeria, they didn't, didn't really branch off to Nigeria, but this particular woman, she started to go to Nigeria and I think during that time they had some visitors coming every once in a while. So actually that's the beginning of it, because I remember that they had a man come and I think he was dealing with, uh, the ancestors and they were asking anybody if they wanted to see him.

And you know, if you wanna get a reading from him, you can get a, get a reading from him. And I did. And there were some things that he told me. So that was another set of eyes and insight into different things about myself that I didn't know. But he was very much on point with it. And I think from that point I just became more and more interested.

You know, and it, it just started to grow and I had more experiences and more experiences.


Yeah. I'm so grateful that you mentioned that you'd like dabbled in other things before finding this place that feels like home. I think so many people think that, you know, being magical or being spiritual is some kind of straight line where, you know, the bright light shines down on you and tells you exactly what to do next.

So I'm grateful that your journey was more than one stop.


You gotta try a little bit of everything. Your spirit is seeking to find where that home is or where it belongs. Where's it, where's your specialty? Some people can look at leaves. I remember I went to a spiritual gathering and there are some people that are just straight up mediums.

They can sit down and you're having a little, I guess they would call it a seance, where, you know, you're lighting candles and you have water and, and stuff like that. And the room's a little dim, you know, and you all are praying and you look across the room. And this happened to me before. I looked across the room and looked at this woman and I saw a pirate, and I'm going like this, rubbing eyes, what the hell?

What am I somebody? Is it Halloween? And I didn't know, no. And I looked again and, and the woman, and come to find out, at that point she became possessed, or as we can say, she, she allowed the spirit to come through her. And this pirate started talking. It was one of her spirits that had been walking with her for some time, and he ended up giving messages to people in the room.

Now there are other times you have to be careful and that's why one should definitely have a mentor or a, a mentor, some a godparent or whatever, however you wanna call it, to guide them through that spiritual process. Because not everybody gets mounted by a good spirit. I saw a woman that transformed into a gargoyle .

Okay. Yeah. Transformed into a gargoyle. And it's scary . Am I allowed to curse? It's scary . Oh yes. The shit outta me. I like, you know, I got a potty mouth, Amy. I scared the fuck outta me. I was like, yeah, fuck


yeah. That's fucking scary as fuck.


That. And all I could think of myself was. Do I run? Do I stay in the woman in the room?

She said, no, no, no, no, no, no. Everybody just stay where they stay where they are. The woman was growling, she was carrying on and it was a scary experience, but she was experienced enough to know what to do. And also with this woman, her protective spirits kicked in. Okay, now let me explain what I mean by that.

She was already with her own knowledge and everything, but she's also a medium. And her protective spirits kicked into her body and started drawing things on the floor. And she put that person on the floor, came back again, and then started to tell everybody to pray. And we prayed and we prayed and we prayed, and eventually the spirit left.

But the girl, after the spirit left, she was. I wouldn't say she was traumatized, but she knew something happened to her. Okay. And she was happy to get whatever that was out of her. So it's very important to stay prayed up. Prayer is so important. You need to stay prayed up. You need, it's good to be good.

It's good to have a good mind. It's good to have a good spirit. It's good to have positive mind so that you can attract positive things. Every once in a while we get to feeling bad, but you know, if you're a wicked person, you can't possibly expect for a angel to come to you with, with a halo. You know what I mean?

So it's, it's, it's very important to pray up. But at the end of the day, the lady was able to get rid of it and, um, she let us know what happened. It's also very important to know how to clean yourself off. You ever walk into a room and you look around and you says, And you said, you said, wow, I'm not feeling this.

The energy in here is bad. You have to know how to clean yourself off so that whatever it is that's linger, uh, lingering around your aura, that somehow or another you're able to transform that negativity onto, whether it's a flower, whether it's taking a spiritual bath or whatever, so that you can re-energize and, and as I say, reboot.

Okay. So don't, but don't let me keep going on.

I, I wanna know, like I, it sounds like a very powerful, but like you say, like a very scary experience. And I'm wondering, having that experience, what made you go deeper instead of running away? What is it about you that wanted to, to go deeper into this, those

things that…


I never wanted to run away, Amy.

Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. You know, there were times that I was like, Hmm, I'm not really feeling this. I'm, I'm a little afraid of it. But it kept hitting me in the face, you know, it's like running away from yourself. You can't run away from yourself because you are who you are and it's gonna continue to be a part of you.

So, I, you know, just got to the point where I was like, okay, this can be scary. Some parts of it can be scary, but the more that you learn is, the more it, it, it increased my faith. I can tell you that if I didn't believe in God before the damn gargo and all that other stuff that I saw made me realize that I'm hoping that there's a God, because whatever that was, I don't wanna see it again.

It helped, it, it helped to increase my faith in, in God. It helped me to understand that this life that we live in, or this matrix that we live in, Is bigger than we thought it is. But the beauty of it all, and the beauty of Effa is to help you to understand the universe in which you live. The different elements that you are, you are, you are living in, and how to, how to also know how to use some of those elements, um, in your life to make things better.

Hope I answered that right?



Well, there is no right answer, but you definitely answered it perfectly. I wanna know about that first trip to Africa. I mean, I, I can't imagine that was easy for you. I don't know how rich you are, but I, I imagine that that was costly and quite a, a commitment.


It was kind of funny, you know what happened?

I had hit the lottery.


Stop it.


Yeah. Okay, let me give y'all some numbers. Five. Yeah. Um, I, I got lucky. I had hit the take five. Let me make sure I got this story right. No, let me reverse that. In the beginning, I did not have the money. When I came back from Africa, I had hit the lottery. Yeah. That's the way it went.


so it was the, the leap of faith. Leap of faith. Yes. It was.

I, you know, believe it or not, I, my going to Nigeria was the weirdest thing. It was not my intention. Um, I came into a little bit of money. I looked at the plane ticket. I told my godfather, who I had known at least for about 10 years prior. So that's why with me being initiated, I knew him about, I would say maybe even a little about 10 years prior.

And I would talk to him all the time, and I just told him, I said, you know what? I said, I'm coming. Can I, can I come? He says, ah. . Absolutely. I said, you sure can I stay for some time? He said, it's your my home. Is your home Come. And I booked my flight and I remember, which is so funny that I told my family, I said, I'm going to Nigeria and my oldest brother, who I love, but we're like two bulls in a pen.

You know, I went to the airport, I had my bags and everything, and he showed up at the airport and he says, are you coming back? Are you coming back? And it was so funny because, you know, I would've never expected him to show me any bit of love. You know, if anything I would've expl expected for him to stay to me.

See you, see you in the next life. But, um, but yeah, I am, I stayed in Nigeria the first time. I went for three months. And I loved it. What, what was your biggest

takeaway from that, from that? Were you initiated in that first trip? Yes. Okay. So that was the biggest takeaway. Yes, for sure. Um, can you, like, how did that come to pass?

Um, what do you want me to come to pass in terms of getting the initiation done or come to pass and Oh, okay. I, I'll, however,

however Spirit wants you to answer the question. Okay.

Well, I will tell you one thing. It was, it was a little, it was a long flight. Wow. It was a long flight. Cuz I took a, I took a direct flight, um, when I got off, I think just getting used to the air.

It was a shocker. The air was thick. It was hot. Yeah. Chelsea was thick and it was hot. And I remember getting out of the airport and there was a certain smell that I love. It was dark when I got there. It was kind of like late at night. So I had to stay at a hotel. But my godfather picked me up and um, it was wonderful on the way going back, oh, I have a joke for you.

So they have something called, uh, bush meat. Okay. And it looks like a gigantic rat. And there are hunters, like as you're going, you know, you see the trees in the background here on my, my little screen. You're going, you're going, you're going. And you'll see some people on the side of the road, maybe they might be selling snakes, people, some people eat snake, some people might be, you know, wanting to buy this, uh, piece of bush meat.

And I remember that I kept dozing waking, you know, jetlagged dozing waking. I. And my godfather had stopped on the side to ask for someone who was selling some bush meat. And I remember waking up and seeing this big, long thing that looked like a rat, and it almost scared me half to death. And I said, what is this?

He said, Relax. Relax. He said, Bush meat is good meat. Good, good. All I remember saying is, I don't want any of it. Please, I don't want any of it. At the end of the day, I ended up eating some of that, you know? Yeah, yeah. I was like, please, whatever you do, do not give me any of that. But at the end of the day, I remember they cooked it and everything, and I think I had it with some rice, you know, kind of like a chicken fried rice, if we wanted to say it that way.

And I remember I ate it and I was like, oh, this was really good. That was the bush meat that, uh, that, that you saw that day. I just looked at him and I said, oh boy. But it, that was kind of funny. Um, but yeah, um, it was, it was a lovely experience. I think what I really enjoyed was the community. The community at large.

Everyone was friendly. It was wonderful to see the kids playing, you know? Now we're, I mean, here in, in, in the United States, we're kind of sometimes hesitant to just see kids outside playing because we don't know. We don't know what's coming next. But what I found to be really loving is that the neighbors knew each other.

And I would say back in the day when I was a kid, that's how it was. Oh mom, I'm going down to miss so-and-so's house. You know, or I'm going down to so-and-so's house. And the, the on the block, everybody knew each other. And that's basically what it was like when I went there. Everyone would always speak.

And most importantly, the level of respect was, was awesome. You know, if somebody was older, you have to bow. There's a certain greeting they have, uh, they have a saying for everything. They have a saying for saying, good morning, good night. They have a saying for, if you've been sitting for a long time, equi, you've been sitting okay, sit nicely.

You've been sitting there for a while. Sit nicely if you happen to walk by again. They have another saying for that. So it, it was just, it was just beautiful. I just, I really felt like I, I was home. For me, it was a, it was, it was a lovely experience and I was welcomed nicely.



Yeah. And you talked about your, your spirit seeking a home, and it sounds like that is one of your spirit's homes For sure.


And, and the, the bush meat, uh, it makes me think of the gargoyle, like something that you, you initially wanna run away from, but then you're like, oh, actually this is pretty good.

It wasn't bad at all. I,

I wanna know about either the process or your desire, whichever comes to the forefront more for you about making that transition from being a devote to being a priestess.

You know, in terms of being a priestess, it took so many years and also study, you know, I learned a lot from my godfather. Um, I learned a lot just by watching. And when you are an apprentice in Nigeria, and I would say by far I am, I'm knowledgeable. But I am very humble when it comes down to saying I know everything.

I don't. I tell Chelsea and I tell them in my group, I don't know everything, but there's one thing that I do know that if I don't know, I know someone who knows, and Chelsea can tell you, she reminded me today. She, yeah. You know, you have such a big network. And I'm like, what are you talking about? But when I think about it, I really do.

I really do. I'm just very, very humble about it. I don't boast, you know, about things. Um, you know, I, I, I want people to get, um, if they get anything from me, I like to tell people, I would like to make sure you get the bird and not the feather.


Mm. All three of us are just like, yes, yes. But for, for those of our, our podcast listeners who are scratching their heads a bit, what do you mean? What's the bird? What's the



Okay, so now if you get the bird, you get everything right? But if you get the feather, you're only getting a piece of the bird.

So I wanna make sure you get the real McCoy. You're not just getting a piece of the bird, you are getting the bird, you're getting the whole thing. So I don't want anybody to lack in terms of what it is that they would get from me by whether taking them abroad to go and get their initiations or anything it is that they need, whether it's medicine.

Cuz there's a lot of different things that, um, if I has, you know, you can get divination. Where IFA will tell you about your life and IFA is a way of living. How IFA, and let me try to explain what is IFA, right? Okay. So what is IFA? Um, IFA is, how can I say? And I have to use some comparisons to explain it, but iffa is like the word of God.

The word IFA was there. Which IFA is the, is the, is the wisdom overall. We would call IFA the system, the, the wisdom, the word, but is the name of the actual deity or prophet. Okay. Just like how we would say, oh, Muhammad is the prophet, you know, to our logs and Muhammad tells you this, um, or Jesus, you know, um, some people may say he's the prophet or he's the only way to get to God.

It is through that you're able to talk to OloDumare. Okay. To get the information and the wisdom of eah, which is coming from the spoken word of God, which is also another name for OloDumare, and let me see if I can, without jumping around too much. If you imagine the Bible, inside of the Bible, you say, oh, what's the word of God?

But then inside of the Bible you have many different verses. You have, uh, chapters, Genesis, Exodus, et cetera. IFA is kind of similar. There are 256 odus. Now what are odus there? I'm gonna compare them to zodiac signs. Okay? So your Zodiac sign, Amy, maybe is edgy, OBE up underneath that Zodiac sign, it says that your personality is this way, your personality is that way, but also you have everybody's fingerprint is different.

Chelsea may also be edgy, OBE, but if I will go into detail to tell you more about yourself, like maybe she wants to go into, uh, to work in a steel mill. And if I will say that's not good for you, that's not, that is not good for your star, even though you may have the same zodiac sign as Amy, but if I was there was the witness to when you were born.

Okay? Because God made him to be the witness that Chelsea was made this way. But Chelsea should not go ahead and work in a steel mill. Chelsea should go and be a fisherman. That's a joke, that's a little private joke with Chelsea. You know, um, you know that she should go and be a fisherman. Because that works good with her element that works good with her.

Star IFA will tell you about your life. It's, he will give you the roadmap to your life. Even when a child is born, what they do, the, the which means father of secret, um, they have something called enti. And enti is when they find out the, how can I say the, the, the genesis of this child. What is this child gonna be?

You know, it may come out that, oh, and I, and I'm gonna do another comparison. For example, when we talk about Christmas and they say, oh, you know, they went to the star where everyone went to go and see baby Jesus. There was a big star. But one of the things that they told Jesus and, and I'm not so good on the Bible, um, is that they told him he had to be moved from that manger because negativity would catch up to him and maybe they might kill him, but he was destined to be someone great and known all over the world.

The same thing with IFA. IFA will identify that child, what he's going to be, that he's going to be a great person, he's gonna be present, and he's gonna, you know, be, he's gonna own a mansion and a yacht or whatever. He's going to be someone great, but. In order for him to be that you must make sure that you pay attention to this with him.

You must not do this with him. Maybe you don't need to bathe him in hot water because it's not good for his star. You know, it's like kryptonite to Superman. They're gonna tell you what your kryptonite is that is going to affect you and render you either powerless or for you to lose your power. So with EF I, if I will identify what you are good at, what you need to be careful of, and the best way for you to live long.


And, and you do this through divination? I mean, because we don't, we don't have like a book in the same sense because it's all oral tradition. A lot oral tradition, right? So we don't have that.


Right. They, they, they have, you know, some books that will tell you some of the stories of the odus, but again, everything is an oral tradition.

Um, but yeah, if I will definitely identify what is going on with that child and how you should raise that child. And it's a beautiful thing because my godfather, for example, um, from the stories that he told me, his parents didn't allow him to go to school. They told him he was going to be a big figure in this tradition.

Um, so there were a lot of sacrifices that his parents had to make sure. Okay. I mean, it's a bad thing you say, well, he didn't go to school. He still learned to read and write. And, you know, now pretty much has a, uh, doctorate in what he does. Um, but at the end of the day, they raised him the right way. They raised him how Iffa said that he would be the greatest at what it is that he does.

And all of that has come, come to pass. I mean, like crazy. It's pretty, pretty amazing.


Yeah, a friend of mine is an astrologer and her mother was also an astrologer and, and told me that, um, this, this astrology, like really helped her mother to parent her in such a ways to be like, okay, like maybe this isn't your path.

I'm not gonna try to push you into staying in school or, because I can see by your chart. So it's, it's a similar thing. It's a, a, a reading of the, a reading of the stars. And how do you divine? Do you have like a particular favorite? Is it cowrie shells?


I don't use cowry shells. I actually use OPELE and there aren't a lot of women that use.

It's usually,


I don't know what that is.

Backup back up for me.


Okay. Sorry. Sorry. It's called OPELE. It's a defining chain. Um, it has like four. Four on one side, four on the other one, they're like these little round seeds. And we use that for but mostly Babalawo, who were the men they use that, they do have some other women, you know, that are that use it as well.

But it's a rarity. It's not much that you hear about. Um, but for me, I use OPELE. You know, I, I just from the onset have been drawn to use OPELE, and that's what I, that's what I use.

Yeah. I, I, it's like it chooses you more so than you choose it. You find, like you are, everyone uses a different tool and you're drawn to the one that's going to work best for you.

I mean, ultimate, ultimately I probably should have been using Shells, but I wasn't introduced to Shells right away. So once I started using Opel, that's just, it just, Became a part of me. Yeah. I prefer to use OPELE

and it's your right to do so. I wanna know too about, um, Chelsea mentioned that your Orisha are, uh, Obatala and, um, OSHUN.

Do they choose you or do you choose them?


They choose you. They choose you. You will find out, well, first I was initiated to IFA. Um, in the Leamy and Santaria system, they usually, I mean, I remember that argument from a long time ago that women aren't initiated to efa, but that's not, so women are initiated tofa and can be initiated tofa, you know?

Um, okay. What was the question? Yeah, so the, the, as far as Areha choosing Orisha chooses you, it's like that guardian angel that was designated. To walk with you through your life, for you to be the, for you to be the best that you can be. And in the beginning, before you get initiated, there might be, uh, let's say for example, they might be ol goon that is walking with you first, but up until the point that you get initiated.

And then when you get initiated, you'll find out who your life orisha is. Who is this Orisha that is gonna walk with you for the rest of your life, for you. And you should be worshiping, you should be talking to you, should be praying to because he is an intermediary, an intermediary in between you and your God.

So when you make your prayers, he's supposed to take and make your prayers to sound sweet in the, in the ears of, of Oladumare so that your prayers will be answered.

Yeah, like you talk a lot about like God and stuff like that, but you know, especially before we met, a lot of people would tell me to separate, you know, God from, you know, if I or your book.

But being with you made me realize like, that's not the case. So while some people may separate it, it doesn't have to be that way. So can you talk more about, um, you know, how God is

still, um, pivotal and it's still

like, you know, he's still a thing even in Yoruba, even if you're not necessarily Christian.

Um, you know, all of these Orisha that we worship and we talk to, they're just different aspects of God. They're different elements of the great I am, you know what I mean? The, you know, who is the mother, the, the loving mother that gives birth and everything like that, that represents water. She's everything, you know?

And that's also an aspect of what God created. You know, we're not worshiping the creation, but it is an aspect of the power of God, which is water. Okay? Same thing for, okay, for example, when you harvest, uh, when, when you give thanks for a great harvest, which has a lot to do with Orisha, they're still giving praise and thanks for the harvest.

It's not so much that they're saying the harvest is God, but is God that has made it so that the harvest is good, but we're given thanks for the harvest. So everything that we do pertaining to Orisha, we give thanks to God first. The great creator of all things, you know. Um, and those same orisha still have to bow down to God and they know.

That, that's what they need to bow down to. So just, just different aspects of God, I'll put it that way. It's just different aspects of, of God, if I'm explaining it, uh, correctly, God is first. We have to give thanks to what it is that, you know, we can't even really understand God because God is so too big to comprehend.

So we just give thanks to the great I am for everything that, that, that he slash she, you know, has given, has given to us. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. And also we do know a couple people who are also

Christian and, you know, initiated into YORUBA too.

Oh yeah. You know, you don't, and, and I wanna just say this, is that you can still be involved in IFA and go to church.

Okay. You know, as they say, don't fall for the okie-doke that you know, oh, I'm going to church, and oh, you're going to burn in hell. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because Iffa is life. Iffa is, is is enjoying and loving life and just understanding the different aspects of this matrix that we are, that's called life that we're living in.

It's, it's so wide. I mean, we're living in the, in the, in the material. But not only are we living in the material, but we're living in the spiritual. I believe that I'm not just living in the material. I live on a whole bunch of other realms too, if you get what I'm saying. You get what I'm saying, Amy?

You know, I'm giving full, full body nod.

I'm nodding with my whole body, listeners. Yeah.


You're not just living in this, in, in, in, in this physical, when you go to sleep at night. It's sort of like a preparation for death. That sounds weird, but that is the time when your spirit gets a chance to get the hell outta here and go visit people and hang out and do fun stuff and fly around and enjoy some other different me dimensions, you know?

And, and meet people that you've known from the past life and, and, and, and et cetera. Go to the moon, come back, you know, and go chill out on top of Venus and, and, and, and smoke a joint. You know what I mean? Whatever. But at the end of the day, when you lay down and your, and you sleep, that is the only time and not the only time.

So let me, let me go back. But that is the main time where your body becomes relaxed. You don't have to worry about this big, heavy weight. And your spirit says she's relaxing. Oh damn, mommy. Damn. I can get up and I can. I can go for a walk for the next seven hours or so, and you may have dreams that you've seen.

I, you know, I'm, I got a little joke for you. I dreamt that I was talking to Jill Scott the other night, and I love Jill Scott. I sure did. I took a picture with her. I'm like, I don't have any of, in any concerts of hers that I'm going to anytime soon, but I dreamt that I was hanging out with Jill Scott.


Well, I just have to tell you that I, we just did an episode of the podcast where I told a Jill Scott story and, and put a bunch of her songs into the show notes. So maybe we've just all got this amazing Jill Scott energy happening right now.


You'll be surprised. I mean, I, my mother's passed away for, uh, you know, quite amount of years now, and I haven't had a dream about my mother in a while.

And I dreamt that I looked up and I was with my niece's husband, who I'm not really around, and we looked up and my mother was at the window waving. And believe it or not, there's a lot of satisfaction in being able to leave your body and see other things you, you will even be taught at times depending on that spiritual mentor that has decided to make you understand a different realm.

You know? Um, and again, which, which again to me makes you thank God even more. Because if you can do that, if you can do that, then what is the great, I am far beyond what anything that we could even imagine. We have the power.


Yes. The first time we met we talked a little bit about, um, sleep and spirit and dreams.

And I know that this is like obviously sleeping is something that we all do, but it becomes a part of your practice when you are engaged in those dreams. Have you ever had prophetic dreams that were very sort of on target? Does that happen to you a lot?


I, yeah. I had a dream about a member, you know, and especially I come from, uh, a family that I say, oh, I dreamt, then I saw a big fish that's 7 42.

Go and play that 7 42. But, um, y'all go ahead and play that number. But anyway, um, I remember I dreamt that I had, I don't know what it was, but I remember the number was 5 75 and I, oh, that I went to go and look, I saw some jeans. I went shopping and the G jeans were, I said, well, how much of these jeans? And the lady said, they're $575.

And I said, damn, that is, that's too expensive.

She said, that's how much it costs. I said, and kept on walking. I remember back in the day before the, this New York state lottery came out, you know, there used to be number holes. I don't know if you guys remember the number holes. Well, you might be too young for the number holes. Love you. Yeah. But yeah, you gotta take us, you gotta, yeah, we, we dunno that.

Okay. Well that's where you could go and do your bedding. You could go and bet And it was sort of like an underground betting, uh, system that really had to do with the races at the racetrack. So once they did the, the races at the racetrack, maybe, uh, they had the first section called Brooklyn and they had, I forget how many horses it was.

And number five. One in the first race and in the second race, number seven, one, and then number five one. That's how they would get their numbers. So people would go and put their little bets out there with whatever hunch number they had. But it's funny, I remember I had something like 50 cents in my pocket and I went into a number hole, and I played 5 75 and I hit straight.

That was a dream. Yeah, that was a dream. That's a true story. That's a true story.

You pay attention to your dreams. People pay attention.

You should keep a journal of your dreams. It's important because you need to figure out your dream code. Now, what's a dream code?

Thank you. That was my question.


What I call a dream code is the way in which your spirit talks to you and gives you messages, okay? They may, um, talk to you in a weird way. Maybe, maybe you're, you're, you are always sitting in a train station when they wanna give, or you're on a train and you're having these dreams that you're on a train and these people are talking to you.

You know? Or you just have these random dreams that you're on a train. Well, why the hell do I keep dreaming about a train? Because maybe you have some spirits that work with you that have to do, that's their method of communication, okay? On the train. So you write your dreams down. And you see if after a while is if there's any similar, similar language that they talk to you.

Okay? They may have a certain way that they talk to you, that you might say, this seems really weird. But if you go back to your journal, try to look and see, it's almost like playing High-Fi private eye, you know, uh, what, what, what, what am I getting from you?


The what? Yeah, we, we dunno that What, what's, what's High Five.

You may, you may look 20, but your references…


what's that?

I, you know, I don't even remember who High Five Private Eye was. That's how old it is. But I know it's an expression that we used to always use. But if you are, you know, if you sit and you write in your journal, you'll see that there may be a pattern to the way in which your dreams come.

If you see that there's a pattern, that's the language that your spirits are talking to you when you're in the dream row. Okay? And then you should always look back at it. Every once in a while. I dreamt that I was in a blue car and I was doing this, and I was doing that. And then you'll look back and then I saw this lady with a red dress, you know, and she was a ballerina.

And maybe two weeks from now you meet a ballerina with a red dress. You know what I mean? It, it seems, I mean, it seems really weird, but there's definitely a dream code. Everybody has one.

But every, everyone's is, everyone's is different. So you can't just say, this is, this means that and this means that.


Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I wanna get to this. Um, because when I first approached Chelsea years ago now, um, for an interview, she said because of the, basically the title of the project being Missing Witches, she said, I have to talk to my godmother. I don't know What I feel about this word witch. And so I kind of wanna just talk it out with my godmother before I say yes.

And of course, of course. And that godmother was you and you told Chelsea, yeah, go ahead, do it. It's like, but can you both maybe explain, like, cuz we, we cast a big net. We play pretty fast and loose with the word witch, but in African traditional religion, the word has a different connotation than, than we might use.

Can you talk a little bit about this other understanding of the word witch and why Chelsea may have hesitated at



Well, you know what's funny, the witches don't even like for you to call them witch. You have to talk to them. You have to mention their names with respect, you know, um, the way that it's said in the.

Yoruba tradition, you would call them aami. It's like saying it's, it's giving them, uh, a bit of a, a praise, um, but they don't like for you to be calling them, which, okay. So, um, what, what I would say is that there are different types here in the United States, and I would say outside of Africa, the word witch is used loosely in Africa.

Even if you are a good witch, you don't wanna tell nobody you're a witch because they don't identify themselves like that, because it's such a secret society, you know, they are powerful beings they can do, and they ca they can do and they can undo, so, You don't really, um, come out and say, Hey, I we're talking about Africa.

You don't come and say, Hey, I'm a witch. Because things that may be going on in that compound or that community, maybe there are some children that they just keep dying off. That person's gonna get blamed for it, you know, and they do have different types of what we call them Okay. We call emi, which means mother, you know, emi.

Um, but at the end of the day, they uh, have different types. They have white witches, they have black witches, and they have red witches. Okay. The white ones are kind of like the fairytale godmother in the Wizard of Oz. It's, oh me, bless you. And Sprinkles, sparkles and click your heels and you know, I'm going to bless you, Dorothy.

That's the, the, the white witch. They do good things. The red one is the one that's like, oh, I'm gonna fuck you up. I'm gonna to fuck up. Everything that you do, I'm going to spoil everything that you're doing. That's the other one. The black one is, can be destructive as well, can turn around and just make plague, you know, so in, in Africa, they, they're very, very careful to talk about it because those things are real.

They're real, you know. Um, I wanna mention, there was one thing that we were reading, we were going over together in my class, cuz I have classes on Sunday where we were talking about the different types of eme. Um, whereas originally what had happened, this is a little, uh, traditional story that mankind and the witches were in harmony with each, with each other.

But God said, okay, you guys are in harmony. Wonderful, but you must remember human beings. You must not kill the emes children. And iami, you must not kill the the humans, uh, children. Well, the human beings weren't, uh, didn't listen so well and they ended up killing the children of the iami. So the emami went back and said, God, You know what?

I don't know what's going on with these healed humans, but I found out that they killed my, my children and humans were like, no, we didn't do that. God. So he did his investigation and found out that, you know, you lied. So he, I mean, said, well, what are we gonna do about that? Because he killed our children.

And God said, you know what? All bets are off. Anytime you wanna fuck around with human beings and destroy their shit, you go ahead. Because now what human beings are gonna have to do is that they're gonna learn how they're going to learn how to have to appease you so you can cause problems in their life.

So that's why up until today, as I kind of narrow down the story, that there's always an appeasement that needs to be given to them. And there are different little, uh, uh, spiritual ways to appease them to ask for their favor because even though there may be some bad ones, You can still, mm, I guess I'm gonna say it's kind of like a bribe, you know, it's like, Hey, if I give you this, you promise not to mess with me.

And they might say, all right, give me this, give me that. I'm not gonna fuck with you for right now, but you going to have to bribe me maybe later when I'm, when I'm ready, when I'm ready. So they may leave you alone for a certain period of time, but what they do is that they were given the permission by God to mess with human beings who didn't listen so well.

So I, I hope that makes a little bit of



That makes perfect sense to me. It just, the, the classic human fuck around and find out, and, and offerings figure largely into, you know, most religions so that makes sense. Along those lines too, of, of making offerings of appeasement and, and also of, um, celebration.


Yes, yes. Yeah. But, um, but so we, we try to make sure that we stay on the good side of them because again, they're powerful beings. They can do and they can undo, and I have actually heard of situations where, and usually, uh, that power is passed down from a mother to her child. They automatically may have it.

Some people think that, oh, they can just go and pay for a ceremony to become a witch. No, you're, you're, you, you were either born with it or you're not. Okay. If, if, how can I say? If they really have some of those powers, And they also have some men witches as well, but it's more women than than men. It's more women than men.

Uh, they possess a certain power that is passed down from mother to to child.

Can you

tell me about your elay, about the family that you've created? Not necessarily biologically, but spiritually.

Oh, yeah. I love my guys and gals, my babies. I love my little babies, but they're all grown. But, um, we love them too. Yeah, my elay, everybody is, they're all wonderful. Um, I would say I, I have a fair amount.

We meet on Sundays. They're not all in the same location, but we have become so close with each other. While we're, you know, everyone's learning and they're, we're all studying together and they're learning about arisha, they're learning about iah, they're learning about different, uh, things spiritually. Um, also everyone in there has had a divination at some point and sometime, and there's a, a lot of questions that they may have.

I'm probably gonna ask Chelsea a question on, you know, how she feels she has grown. And, um, you know what, and, and I am gonna ask, so from, since I met you, Chelsea, you know, what, what do, what do you think, how do you think IFA has helped you?


Oh man, that's a

loaded question. Um, first, first of all, um, we've known each other since 2016.

Um, so that's something that.

Um, we both, I didn't even realize it was that long. Wow. Yeah.

Like since 2016. Um, and I got a reading from somebody else before I got introduced to

you, but then,

um, I remember my first reading,

I was like, yeah, okay,

that's cool. Right?

And then something told me like,

just like how I was saying like, um, how something told her to just kind

of get initiated.

Something told me, let me

call, you know, or back and at least do one thing from my divination. And that was when I got my head fed for the first time. Yeah. And so I remember, I remember I met, I met up with you, you drove me to, um, rainbow to get a white outfit cuz I had to wear white.

Really? I don't even remember that.


Yeah. I re Yeah. Yeah.

You drove me the rainbow. Cause I was like, I don't have no white, I didn't know I was supposed to wear white. And you were like, yeah, like, so I got like a pair of sandals and like a really simple dress. Um, and then you had white cloth at your house and you know,

you were in the car, we were in the car, you were asking,

you know, like has anything that came up in the reading, you know, has anything like took place?

And then at first I was like, no, I don't think so. And then I sat back and literally like certain things that came up, I was like, oh, that wasn't the reading. And I just like, it was like kind of confirmation, like, okay, like I was supposed to do this. Um, but ever since like my first head feeding and my first like, you know, um, interaction with you, I feel like I've really grown, um, spiritually, but I've also feel like mainly like mature wise, um, and a lot of things because ea made a joke, um, about a fisherman like fish.

Um, when she says she was teasing me because,

um, one of my taboos that has come out so far. Even though I'm not initiated just yet, um, is that I need to stay away from Phish for a while. Um, so with that, and then part of it was because, you know, to help me with maturity, and I wouldn't have known that because I'm, like, nobody

talks about Fish being equated

into, you know, emotions, maturity, nothing.

So I'm like, okay, cool. But I, I do, I can say


um, as I follow things like that, even if I don't fully understand it, I'm like, okay. Like I have been, you know, maturing and getting things quicker, um, than I did, um, before, you know, I, you know,

before I started

getting things quicker, um, after I decided not to eat fish in terms of maybe why somebody took something I said the wrong way or maybe I took something they said the wrong way and just learned how to deal with it.

Also, um, career pathway wise, I, I felt like, um, I'm seeing more so, okay. I'm still learning what my path is, but I'm getting closer. Um, and also even, you know, my relationship, I feel like, um, you know, me and my boyfriend have also gotten closer just from me listening to some of the readings that have, you know, come out.

Um, so yeah, it's, and

also I've just gotten community as well. Um, I know different people from different places now, um, that, that feel like family and, um, I get different perspectives and I don't feel like I'm alone or doing this by myself. Cuz even before ea I would just read books all the time and feeling just to feel connected to something that I felt like.

Was missing, but I didn't, I couldn't explain it. I was just like, well, I like this book. Like one of my favorite books was Jumbalaya when I first like started getting like, you know, like

interested in

it. Um, like my first, after my first reading, like before, yeah, I believe. Um, and I just felt so connected to it, even though that's, you know, Lacumi, I was like, okay, this feels like, I'm like, something's clicking for me.

So it's, it's nice that, um, while that book has amazing, like things that, you know, people could do on their own, I'm happy that I have like a men, like a mentor and, you know, a godmother. Um, and like, you know, a priest said, I can just be like, Hey, like what are some things I can do versus what can I do? And also, hey, like, I don't really understand like why this is happening.

Can you look into this as to, you know, why this is happening that maybe I just don't know. Or even, okay, I'm trying to figure out where to move.

What would be the best area for me to go and they, family good for that. Those type of things. You should look into major decisions.

And sorry to interject, uh, Chelsea, like, if you wanna buy a house, you should check it.

Fuck. So you don't buy a house that isn't fit for you. If you are getting ready to do a make, do a big, uh, a major business deal, you should find out if it's a good business deal, if I will let you know whether or not it's a good choice or a bad choice. Now, I've had people do things that if I said don't do, and then afterwards they come back and they're like, oh, this didn't work out.

Uh, and I'm like, if I'm not, remember, you shouldn't done that. Oh, you know, so IFA is, I honestly, the system of IFA is wonderful. It's gonna help you with everything. It can help you to understand yourself. It can help you to understand your family. It can help you to understand your job, where you need to be careful of at your job.

It can help you to understand what you're experiencing. It can help you health wise. Um, so many different, and matter of fact, it helped me a lot with the transition of my uncle who was my, my road dog, my best buddy. Um, if I is such a deep knowledge that it helps you to understand that yes, when someone passes away, yes, they've passed away, but.

In reality, they really, really haven't. So it's sort of helped me to understand life better. Um, if I will let you know in advance that, and, and this may sound weird, that um, even if there's a, somebody may get a, a divination that says, you need to be on the road, be careful while you're on the road, so you don't have a car accident.

The person gets, they, they managed to do the sacrifice or the offering or whatever needed to be done, and they still get in a car accident, but maybe not as bad. It doesn't mean that what was told wasn't, uh, was a lie, or the sacrifice that was done didn't work. It just meant that maybe the accident that you were going to get in might have been a major accident that you didn't walk out of, but you had a little fender bender.

So if I helps to soften the bullet, You know, or the tragedy, or whatever the case may be. I've had countless divinations done in reference to family and so many different things, and my family, they already know. Now they, they, they, they know who I am. In the beginning it was very difficult for them to understand, but I think that over the years they can appreciate what I'm involved in, even though they're not practicing it themselves.

Because I also make sure that I look out for my family by being involved. But if I has a wonderful, wonderful thing, it has saved my life countless times, you know, from, from danger. So it's, it's a, it's a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful way of life.


And do you

do, um, divinations for clients or strictly within your Ile?


I do. Yeah.

No, I, yeah, I, I do. Well, you know, it's funny, um, Chelsea calls me old school, and I am old school in a sense that, um, you know, not really on Instagram or Twitter or things like that. Um, most of the people that I know, and it's a lot of people are usually referred to me, you know, say, oh, you know, you need to call my er.

And they'll, they'll call me and they'll decide that they, they want a divination done and the divination will be done. I will make sure that everything is explained to them. And then after that, I make sure that we go through anything that they don't understand. Um, and, and, and take it from there.



And, and what do your clients need to have, like a, a background in Yoruba or not at all?


Not at all. Not at all. It'll be explained to them in layman terms, you know? Um, and if there's anything in there that they don't understand that will be explained so that the average beer will, uh, will, will understand exactly what I'm saying.


Yeah. And so if our listeners who are just have fallen in love with you in the same way that I have over, over our conversations, how can they get in touch with you? What's the best way to

do that? Well, they can email me. Um, the email address is gbogboorisa at gmail dot com and that's gbo gbo,

G B O. G b o, which is bo, g b o, and then o r i s a gmail.com.


And because it is fun to say, we'll just say one more time. gbogboorisa.

Now Bobo means all, everything, all. So this is for everybody. This is, this is not just for somebody involved in the Europe religion, this is for anybody.

You can be a Christian, you could be a Wicca, you can be whatever it is that you wanna be. You can, you know, all pronouns are are also allowed. You know what I'm saying? So it's for everybody. If I is for everybody. To help you to live your life as best as you possibly can. You know, we wanna be able, in life, there's sometimes a lot of zigzag, zigzag, zigzag.

So if you are zigzagging, you're not gonna get to your destination as fast as you would by going straight. If I is like the flashlight in the dark, it shines the light on. Hey, down the road there's a, there's a big hole down the road. Don't go down that road or be cautious when you go down that road because there's a big hole or a big boogey monster down that road.

So don't go that way. Go this way. That's what if I is about to make sure that you don't bump into those things that would be detrimental to you in your life, so that you can live. To your fullest, uh, to live to, to what it is that you're destined to be in this life. And if I will also let you know and give you an idea of your talents, but I do divinations and you know, my email address is address if anyone wants to reach out or they have some mysterious things going on that they can't explain, if I will definitely let you know what's going on, for sure.

Yes, and of course we'll put your email address and everything else into the show notes. I have one more question before we spiral out of this conversation. I want to know if there's a message that's coming through that you want to share with our listeners. Like if your philosophy, self spiritual message was a bumper sticker, what would be the message on that bumper sticker?

If you want to? Come out of darkness, seek


I love that. Thank you so, so, so very much. And thank you Chelsea, for introducing me to your godmother and bringing me into this circle with your family. It, uh, it's been such a joy and such a delight and I've learned so much. I can't wait to talk to you both again. I hope we can make this a, a regular segment on the Missing Witches podcast

That'll be cool.


Yeah. There's so much that

we didn't even get into that.

Yeah. IYA got stories and knowledge for days,

so that's what I'm saying,

you know, just, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Am I speaking for you or are you down to come

back, you know, one day.

Oh, absolutely. Sure. I I, I, I love it. Thank you, Amy. Yeah,

thank you. I I love it too.


I love it too. And I, I'm so excited and so grateful. Um, you were telling me that this is the first podcast that you've done ever. You told me at the beginning that you were a little bit nervous


I'm just, I had, I just had three cups of soups before getting on.


I've never heard of that before. Some people have a couple glasses of wine. You have a cup of soup. That's amazing. I just, I thought I couldn't love you more, and here I am, loving you more with your cup of soup.


I, Chelsea, I tell you, she said, are you okay? Yeah. I said, Chelsea, I'm supposed to be on this diet.

I said, you're not gonna believe this. She said, what? I said, I just ate three cups of soup. She said, what? I said, yeah.


It's, we're nourishing our souls here today. People again. Yeah, because I, I really hope that some of our listeners are going to reach out to you and get to bask in some of this light that is just absolutely pouring out of you.

G b o g b o o r i s a gmail.com. And again, listeners, all of this stuff will be on our social media and in the show notes. Thank you for this family affair. It really has been a balm and a light and a warmth. I, I've just, I'm, I'm so happy to know you both. Thank you so much for being in circle with us today.


you so much. Aw, thanks


And blessed fucking bee.

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