Indigenous Magic

Indigenous Futures 2024 Part 2 - The Future Requires Radical Hope

More of this, Creator. More of this Please.

Amy Torok
May 16, 2024
37 min read
Embodied MagicPodcastReparations
Christopher Marmolejo, Granddaughter Crow, Asha Frost


Together with Asha Frost, Christopher Marmolejo, AND Granddaughter Crow we discuss the cultivation and embodiment of Radical Hope, Liberation, Self-Determination and Collective Healing, and acknowledge that it's good to fail at empire. We spin the wool of connection and weave a multi-coloured tapestry of possibility, and in doing so, this conversation becomes a blanket of comfort and protection over the seven generations ahead and behind.


Asha Frost is a mentor and mama, a Medicine Woman who believes that we can all heal ourselves. She is the author of You Are The Medicine and creator of Sacred Medicine oracle deck, and the upcoming Animal Elders oracle deck (Dec 2024). Find Asha on Instagram.

Christopher Marmolejo s a Brown, queer, and trans writer, diviner, educator, prophetess and authoress of Red Tarot. They use divination and astrology to promote a literacy of liberation. Find Chris on Instagram and Substack.

Granddaughter Crow (Dr. Joy Gray) holds a doctorate in leadership. Internationally recognized as a medicine woman, she comes from a long line of spiritual leaders as a member of the Navajo Nation. Her books include The Journey of the Soul, Wisdom of the Natural World, and Belief, Being, & Beyond. Find GDC on Instagram.



Amy: If you want to support the Missing Witches project, join the coven. Find out how at missingwitches. com. 

Amy: We're halfway through the month of May, which means we're halfway through our reparations fundraiser. Every year at Missing Witches, um, we and our coven and our extended witch community spend this month of May raising money for Indigenous support organizations, especially the Native Women's Shelter of Montreal, and gathering together with our magical friends for conversations around Indigenous futurism. 

Amy: Here's a quick rundown of how our fundraiser works. 1. Make a donation of 10 or more to your local Native Women's Shelter or Indigenous led support organization, or donate to the Native Women's Shelter of Montreal. 2. Take a screenshot of your receipt and email it to missingwitches at gmail. com with the subject line reparation. 

Amy: 3. Be entered to win fabulous prizes donated by luminaries of the witch community. 4. Automatically receive a coupon code for a discount. From one of our favourite witchy businesses, Housewitch. As always, Missing Witches will be contributing our profits for the month of May to support the Native Women's Shelter of Montreal. 

Amy: In addition, once again, I believe this is our fourth year, we're asking our community to join us and make a donation. A reparation. We know that most of you are coming to us from outside Canada, so wherever you are, we encourage you to seek out a local Native women's shelter or Indigenous led support organization. 

Amy: We understand that some places don't have First Nations specific orgs, so we also accept donations to shelters for vulnerable women and children, sex workers, victims of violence, but we do appreciate during this month of May a focus on the support of Indigenous people. And reparations to them this year as violence rages across the world. 

Amy: We're opening the fundraiser to support all displaced people. According to the latest UN figures, nearly 300 million people in 72 countries. will require humanitarian assistance and protection in 2024 alone. So if you have a connection to Palestine, Congo, Sudan, Myanmar, Ukraine, the list tragically goes on and on. 

Amy: We'll count donations to organizations that help affected women and children around the world. We are following the leadership of Indigenous communities in weaving and widening these circles of protection. So again, make your donation of 10 or more, take a screenshot of your receipt and email it to missingwitches at gmail. 

Amy: com with the subject line reparation, tell us what country you're in, plus the amount of your donation. The amount is important because for every 10 you'll get one entry into the raffle for prizes. So if you donate 50, you'll get five entries and so on. The fundraiser runs through the month of May. Prize winners will be chosen at random and announced on June 1st. 

Amy: There is a long list of prizes, so we encourage you to go to missingwitches. com slash reparations dash fundraiser dash 2024 for the list of prizes that these witches have pledged for this fundraiser. As always, this is an experiment, so if you think it's a cool idea, please help us make it successful by making a small reparation to First Nations women who have been systematically marginalized. 

Amy: and disenfranchised both socially and economically. Let's raise some real money, make some real change, and be blown away by what we can do when we work together. And with that, I will pass the mic to Risa to introduce our beautiful guests that are joining us for this conversation around Indigenous Futurism today. 

Amy: Thanks, everybody. 

Risa: Thanks, Amy. Always does my heart good to hear. The story about the reparations fundraiser, even though it's a story we know well, it's, uh, it's an easing for us, especially in hard times to know that we get to do that work with our community. And it's so thrilling and so fun to get to be in this circle right now. 

Risa: It feels like sort of bringing together. Um, like a very beloved friend who I admire a lot in Granddaughter Crow, a new friend that I am totally in friend love with having hung out with once, and I have like all the giddy friend love in Christopher Marmolejo, author of The Red Tarot, and such a beautiful soul that I've admired from a distance that I'm like shy to get to meet in Asha Frost, your beautiful deck has accompanied so many of our circles, and I know Amy has been so touched by your work, and yeah, she's just so beautiful. 

Risa: So it's such a thrill to get to meet these people and to get to be part of the reason why they need each other. So I wondered if we could start with offering you the invitation to introduce yourselves, if that's okay. I know it puts some labor back on you, but I kind of love the idea that we aren't obliged to be the person we were five minutes ago, as the saying goes. 

Risa: And also just to hear how you frame your work right now, as you're introducing yourselves on these days. Um, why don't we start with GDC since I am so thrilled to get to hang out with my beloved friend again. 

GDC: Um, I am so honored to be here in circle with the Missing Witches as well as newfound friends who I've been checking out on social media. 

GDC: Yes, I've been all up in your business trying to get to know who you are. Just because I have been looking forward to this. So, Yá'át'ééh, they call me granddaughter Crow. I am born of the Belegana clan, too, the Ta'achini clan. I am a member of the Navajo Nation. Um, my, I would say that my father, full blood Navajo, is, he, he passed away last year at age 91, and he was the one that, My blood comes from and I just, and it's his father, my grandfather crow that I carry his spirit with me. 

GDC: And so it's just really amazing. I was kind of in prayer and meditation last night before dream work. And I'm like, hey you guys What do you want me to say? But anyway, um, i'm just really happy to be here. So granddaughter crow, you can call me gdc for short Yeah, you know me i'm gdc um very free form I have My website, I do one on one sessions and I, uh, have a podcast. 

GDC: Um, and I am an author and a teacher and I just show up how people, people need me and my mission is to inspire, to encourage, to empower you to be your authenticity, and to march to the beat of your own drum as we come together in symphony. There you go. 

Risa: Thanks, friend. I hope that Grandfather Crow and all of those ancestors feel welcome here with whatever. 

Risa: Whatever they need us to hear today. Thanks for inviting them. Asha, it's so nice to meet you. Would you, would you do us the honor of introducing yourself and your work? 

Asha: Oh, it's such a blessing to be here. When I received this email, my whole heart lit up, like, and that doesn't happen very often. So, I just, I just love you folks. 

Asha: You're just the best and your circles are just the best. So I'm really grateful to be connected. Um, my spirit name is healing rainbow woman, and also she who walks the path of the Thunderbirds. My mother's family is from Cape Croker First Nation. My father's from Serpent River, uh, all from so called Ontario. 

Asha: And my ancestors are from all over so called Ontario. And of course they're here. I'm so grateful for their presence. And I am from the Crane Clan. Adjecto Dem, and that's important because I think that it calls me into my medicine daily, um, holding that leadership and holding that speaker energy that Crane Clan does. 

Asha: And it just continues to, to guide my path. I am a medicine woman and healer and an author and an Oracle Deck creator. And I'm a mama of two boys who truly helped me to continue my work in the world because I have this vision of leaving this legacy for the seven generations to come and hoping that the healing work I'm doing is also inspiring, uh, those generations behind as well and unweaving and unraveling the impacts of residential schools and colonial harm and trauma and. 

Asha: All the systems in my own being and body, um, and holding space for others to do the same. So I'm, I'm really, really grateful to do this work and to be, I really try to be as much as possible in my, in my physical body. So thank you for having me. 

Risa: Thanks for being here. And thanks for calling in that sense of not just Yeah, all the systems. 

Risa: I liked the way that that sort of expanded and I felt the pressure, the layered pressure of those systems that we moved through and I could sort of see them for a moment. The way you contrasted them to with, with, I don't know, with a crane clan or a spirit of animals or a different way of feeling, uh, feeling impacts on our bodies, you know, there's sort of a system feeling and then there's something else. 

Risa: And I can't wait to talk about that more. 

Asha: Okay, great, 

Risa: Christopher Marmolejo, wonderful author of the Red Tarot. How are you? And how are you introducing yourself these days? 

Chris: I am thrilled and honored, likewise, to be here amongst you all. So I was so happy to also receive the invitation and just also just get to share more time together. 

Chris: Um, and so I'm, I'm brightened. I'm excited. And yeah, I, I like authoress. I like profit tests. You know, I've been liking the S on it. I like a little snake sound to go along with the introduction. Um, I, yes, I'm a recent author. My book did just come out in March. And so, um, that achievement and that Um, I grew up with the people of the pines from Serrano territory. 

Chris: I'm not formally recognized as a member of the tribe, but have been welcomed into the tribe and very much. I'm in kinship with them. Um, and I write about, um. Blood Quantum, and also in the book about, uh, this being not only on the tarot, and my work being about sort of decolonizing the oracle in the way that it's so commodified now, it's so much appropriated, all of these indigenous ancient ways of knowing, of seeing, of engaging reality, and knowing the self. 

Chris: Um, But doing so from a sense of hybridity and in a relationality and a solidarity with especially Black Americans, formerly enslaved people, people who have had ruptures upon their ability to feel, uh, claimed by the land, to feel a sense of community. Um, I'm trans femme. I've been thinking about the dolls. 

Chris: I've been thinking about, um, just the body. I'm an astrologer. I do consultations. Uh, I teach tarot and astrology. I do curanderismo sessions. Um, and so a lot of my work, I think, exists within the fault lines of identity, of place, of lineage, and also in repairing a lot of those through, um, Uh, through decolonial technologies such as divination and tarot and ritual and conversations like these. 

Risa: I wonder if we could start there. I mean, um, from a divination perspective, and since the framework for this conversation is futurism, indigenous futurism, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the future. These days, these days when the future can feel hard to believe in or when like a beautiful future can feel hard to believe in, I wonder what your instincts or traditions or divinatory practices are telling you about the future. 

Risa: And if so, what are they? I wonder, Christopher, if you would start. 

Chris: Mm hmm. The future. I think that it demands a radical hope and a fortification. Um, especially when we're sort of seeing through a kill box every time we open social media. And instead of foreclosing the site, the genocide, the epistemicide, um, the ways that we're trained to deaden our sense of optimism within the future by the news that we're engaging daily, by the awareness of the myriad systems of oppression that are always attempting to kill us, um, turning to divination. 

Chris: You know, which is about ritual, which is about communion with powers, um, with the dead, right? Making a capacity for communing with the dead and for the yet to be, um, is a radical reorientation and one that I think is informed because there's a sense of optimism that comes even from stepping into the unknown and for, um, holding space for, you know, Confusion and paradox and radical upheaval and uncertainty, and yet having a sense of faith and a sense of trusting and honoring of intuition and spirit that, um, becomes, um, not only a mode of perceiving what might your day look like, what might, um, your year ahead look like, what might this space look like for your community, for your own lineage, for the seven generations, but also be a space of healing of trauma, um, and of reworking, like I was saying, like a sort of refashioning, uh, recycling of the rubble that we are existing within, that we have to process and work within. 

Chris: Um, and I, and that for me starts with, uh, a cognitive Um, reordering that I think divination incurs. So kind of stopped there. 

Risa: Asha, do you want to pick up that thought? 

Asha: Oh my goodness. I was just feeling yes, yes, yes. That's so, that was so profound. Um, what comes to mind is a few weeks ago, I was speaking somewhere and this elder came up and said, you know, Thank you for my reminding us of the power of imagination. Cause we were doing some journeying and I thought to myself, Oh my goodness. 

Asha: I've never really put it down to simply that it's not simple. Imagination is glorious, but I really think about how we've been colonized away from our dream time, our connection, our divination systems, our, um, our imagination, our ways of using our visionary capabilities, um, you know, We really have been. 

Asha: So every time I speak to people, it's like we have to reframe like this is equally this indigenous ways of knowing and being are so profound and powerful. And we can all access this. So I think that if we could return to imagination, perhaps there would be that hope would be there we could imagine and dream that A world into being instead of being inundated about all of this collective consciousness that's constantly taking up. 

Asha: I hear what you say about opening up social media. It takes up so much of our energy space and I wonder if we blasted through with re imagining and re dreaming and re visioning and if we really claimed that as medicine, what could shift if we held that as Equally as valuable equally as important. Um, I'm here for that. 

Asha: So I and I know my children are and children always are right. They're my favorites to work with. So yeah, that's what I'm claiming right now around this question. 

GDC: Love that. And I love what we're throwing down because, you know, with, uh, understanding that we are stewards and we are the elders of the future leaders is very important, equally as important to understand that we are standing on the shoulders of our ancestors. 

GDC: And a lot of us, because of what Asha was talking about and what Chris was talking about, This, you know, detachment, whether it's social media or colonization or the systems, it's just really, really interesting because we do need to sometimes we feel so removed from ourself, even as indigenous people, at least I do as granddaughter crow, even though the blood flows through me. 

GDC: the systems, you know, come in. And so be proud of who you are and how you are in this world and how your spirit is, um, beyond whatever culture you come from. What I would like to say, I'd just to like to add a little bit too, This beautiful topic of imagining and divination and how that can help us through deprogramming colonization. 

GDC: And so what I'll just say is My father, he, full blood Navajo, English is his second language, and, but he learned English very well, um, but he was a bridge between the Navajo speaker, thinker, and the English speaker, thinker. The idea here is that the words that we select reveal how our, we approach the world in our mind, so we think. 

GDC: We think the language, we think the indigenous, we think the, the, the imagining, we think it and then that we speak it. So I asked him one time, I said, I said, Dad, you know, how is it being a translator between these two very cowboys and Indians, yo, yo, you know, and he's like, Oh, let me put it this way. It's really hard. 

GDC: He says. If you get an English thinker to stand in front of a tree and the assignment is get to know that tree, the English thinker will automatically separate, label, segregate in order to understand. This is like a scientific, um, quantitative analysis type of a thinking. And so we look at the tree with an English speaking mind and we go, uh, trunk, uh, branch. 

GDC: Leaf, bark, I will call you apple tree. And that's how we get to know the tree. And this is a very left centric, left hemisphere way of thinking. And it is beautiful, and it is scientific. However, like was said, we've got to balance that out with the right hemisphere, the creativity, the divination, the beauty. 

GDC: And so I said, well then what does a Navajo thinker do? And he says, ohhhh. He slows down, gets in his cadence, you know. Oh joy, joy, he calls me. A Navajo thinker will stand in front of a tree and they will see this beautiful organism and they want to get to know the tree, but they just see its beauty and they keep watching and all of a sudden a wind blows and the branches and leaves go this way and the Navajo looks at their hair and it's blowing in the same way that the tree is. 

GDC: And now I know the tree because there is something that connected us. That is a very qualitative, right hemisphere, creative, different approach. And we all have those two different approaches, but I think it's, it's really beautiful if we can approach things From another mind, our creative, intuitive, dream like divination. 

GDC: I can't wait to pick up your book, The Red Tarot, and an oracle deck from you. I'm just like, yes, I never really realized that working with divination tools actually can help us decolonize. 

Amy: It's, it's so interesting to me because when we spoke last year, I think, Asha, um, one of the things you said about the creation of your oracle deck, now oracle decks, um, you said to me, this is how we decolonize. 

Amy: And I thought of you, Asha, and you, GDC, so much when I was reading your book, Chris. Um, some of the themes of Red Tarot are liberation, self determination, collective healing, and I think that these themes apply to all of y'all's work. They're so connected. Um, I want to ask you, Chris, and then if Asha and GDC could sort of weigh in on these connections. 

Amy: Like, what comes up for you when you hear these words together in one sentence, and how are they connected? Liberation, self determination, and collective healing, other than inside my book. Um, how are, how are these, how are these things connected? And. 

Chris: I'm like, turn to page. No, I'm just kidding. Um, uh, I'm like, well, no, um, you know, I'm, as, as the conversation is, is coming, I'm, as well, like, I think that, of course, um, and something, I mean, that I do emphasize, like, continuously in the book, so that, So that decolonization is not taken to be seen as a theory in an institution that gets slapped on to like anything that wants to, to be popularized now, right? 

Chris: But it's an actual land back movement. It's actually a divestment from, uh, Um, the institutional spaces, it's actually, it requires action, you know, it requires a re relating, it requires, um, a collectivism, you know, and there is a sense of sovereignty, not in the way that, um, is defined by a Western white man, uh, a slave ownership model that our founding fathers quote unquote uphold by having complete total control over another being, um, rendering other, you know, rendering everything else into an object to be sold and to come out to be commodified. 

Chris: And so like within this, I'm also thinking of, because I'm an astrologer, um, Capricorn and Aquarius and Pluto being retrograde, Pluto going from Capricorn, Pluto going into Aquarius. Um, the last decan of Capricorn is the, is tied or are synchronized to the fourth pentacles. And in that you see an image of this like mini monarch who's holding on to four coins, you know, and it's this image of possession and ownership. 

Chris: And I think what indigeneity and liberation looks like is, is actually what is afforded, what is imagined by dispossession, you know, and reordering the ways that we think about that so that we can actually imagine a world without masters. And that comes from, and then getting Um, the Five of Swords, which is Aquarius I, which is like the next thing that follows after that, that Four of Pentacles, Capricorn III, um, and the Five of Swords, and like, that is such a rich image, but within that image, I see, it's one being stripped of title, being stripped of status, it's being, uh, kicked off her own land, it's being made an internal exile, an internal alien, right, and at the same time, um, again, there's a rupturing there, but I think that, Being able to inhabit some, some of that rupturing creates space, like I always say with ideas, like it's great to fail at Empire, you know, it's like the art of queer, queer failure. 

Chris: It's like, if you were pushed out, if you could not conform, if you, like, had a hard time trying to be colonized and, like, be conditioned and, like, tamed and, like, made your hair, you know, not less kinky, or your accent less thick, or what have you, um, those are actually good things that actually can, uh, help free you, and especially where we're at now, um, More radically align you with other failures at Empire other queers other freaks, right? 

Chris: other native other kin, you know, who which we all are again, of course because this is like such a self destructive impetus that colonialism and empire aspires towards. 

Amy: Asha, how do you connect liberation, self determination, and collective healing? 

Asha: Oh, that's such a big question. I guess for me when I felt that question, I really felt it in my body. 

Asha: And as Chris was speaking, I, I realized that for me, it is a, it is staying embodied, staying embodied, um, for myself and for my, my family. And that's really challenging. I was thinking about my relationship that I have in spaces that I have to engage in, especially the publishing spaces in the publishing world, which are highly all the systems, highly capitalistic, highly colonial, highly white supremacist. 

Asha: Um, and what an impact that has had on my body and continues to have on my body and how, if I don't stay in my body, I will never, I will never even attempt to reach liberation in any way. I will be shackled or I will be frozen or I will be oppressed in that way. Um, so it's almost been a really personal journey, I think, for me in those spaces to remain. 

Asha: Myself in a world that wants to make me something else, um, and to find, as we talk about like collective healing and community, like to, to not feel that loneliness or that I'm all alone, or I'm doing something wrong because I'm the one that's different or I care about. Untangling and dismantling these systems, or I want to be, I want to re indigenize a space that has no thread or whisper of indigeneity in a room, on a stage, in a, that, that is it for me. 

Asha: And sometimes as I'm speaking about it, cause I'm getting emotional, it can be just really heavy and really hard. Um, so right now that journey is very like in my body and noticing what's happening to my body being in those spaces. Um, and then I've also like the collective, the community are always on my heart, on my shoulders, in my, in my being, because that, that is who I'm hoping my work is rippling out to. 

Asha: And I'm hoping that it's liberating other folks, younger folks, two spirit folks. Those are the folks that I get these DMs from that I get so excited about who say, I'm so excited. There's even a two spirit card in your deck. And I'm so excited. I feel so safe. I've been so fractured from my, um, my teachings and, um, I didn't expect that. 

Asha: So to me, that feels like part of the liberation that that's happening. I love that. 

GDC: I love that. So when I, when I hear those words, liberation, self determination and collective healing, I go back to being a little girl and seeing my grandmother. They're, uh, shanella, shearing a sheep, dying the wool, making the yarn, and weaving. 

GDC: I come from a long line. I don't do it myself, but I come from a long line of traditional Navajo weavers, literally. But I might not do it in the traditional rug or tapestry or blanket, but my mind still thinks like that. And so when I think about liberation, I think about getting that wool and honing it. 

GDC: This is you. You have a color. You have a feel to you. I'm helping you to be strong in your own bond with yourself. And then when I think about the self-determination, I think about how the weaver is weaving us all together on that loom and that that's that collectivity to the collective healing. And then we end up making this beautiful, organic tapestry together. 

GDC: So when you know. You don't find a tapestry that's, Oh, it's so beautiful. It's all white. It's all black. It's all red. It's all gray. It's all purple. No, the beauty in it is the colors that come together and the strength of the soul of the other. And I know that we're dedicating this to indigenous futurism. 

GDC: So I'm going to keep focusing on that. But I also want to say, and to all other groups that have been called other, that has voice has been taken away that you don't know if you have. The strength to stand on your own like my grandmother showed the wool that it can turn to yarn. So let's Be a blanket. 

GDC: Let's do some weaving. Let's be individuals and come together collectively. And it does take self determination. I think the word self determination is, you know, they say that we sit here polishing the bars of the jail that we hold or that we have been placed into when we don't even realize that the door is open. 

GDC: And it takes, in order to liberate yourself, you have to have self determination. You have to be able to go. Wait! I'm worth it too. And even though I feel disconnected from whatever, thank God you don't fit in that box. 

Chris: And I say, as you, uh, brought that image to mind, it just really touched me. I think often about my maternal grandmother. 

Chris: She was incarcerated. She spent a lot of time in and out of prison. Um, she had some of her children in prison and that mother wound has been a deep, uh, legacy that I have worked to heal. And I think is also in the passing of the baton of that understanding of literal incarceration. And we're so of course matrix and like confined in our bodies in so many ways, but the difference of. 

Chris: Being behind bars, um, giving birth in bars. Behind bars to now, uh, being able to come to my body and feel free and give myself permission to pursue my dreams and to work with community and to feel her in me, you know what I mean, into like, uh, and not only her or not only my own family legacy, but I think like, you know, what you were saying, Asha, as well as like, um, I'm like, I can, like, we feel the grief. 

Chris: Collectively, like, we feel the pain collectively through our body as well. And so there's a self determination, of course, that is required and that we're not following the edicts of some script that was written for us by some white oppressor, by some colonial mindset. Internalized or without, um, but that we're also co responsive and like, uh, collectively self determining like, like that, that is held in clarity that we are also informed, um, by our relationality as the, as your story, you know, with the tree brought forward, the wind moves us both. 

Chris: Right. And so how is that determining us and towards what aim and what direction? 

Risa: I have a question. About signs and symbols in the sky. I want to talk about, I want to talk about the, the, the lights, the northern lights. I want to talk about the eclipse. I, I just feel like this is this massive experience we've had with a symbol in the sky and your diviners and astrologers and people who are taking lessons. 

Risa: From the universe around us. And I just wonder what you think is going on. Asha, do you have any thoughts about it? 

Asha: I might need a little bit of time to think about that one. That's a big one. That's a big one. So maybe somebody else can go first. 

GDC: Oh, I'll, I'll pick it up. So like, are we skirting around talking about aliens or what are we doing here? Ha ha ha! 

Risa: I don't need to go to the alien's direction, but I'm also open. 

GDC: I love it. I love it. I love it. And the reason why I say that is because I know, um, you know, that a lot of Indigenous people around the world. believe that the holy people came from the stars that we ourself came from the stars and all of that in the great star nation and i just wanted to say you know if you want to have a convo i'll have the convo but at the other side of the spectrum you know we're living in times of well like what chris was saying this You open up social media and you get pummeled with this idea that everything is bad in the world. 

GDC: And like Asha was saying, that you have to go into these systems and that your body feels it. If you are brave enough to feel what your body is feeling, so kudos on that, you know. But, and so this is man made. Like, this stuff that we're talking about, about social media, and this, and the, that's man made. So we need to check ourselves on the man made stuff, look up to the skies, look to Mother Nature, look to the tree, look to the skies, and see the beauty that is overarching, that is beyond a screen. 

GDC: So that's just what I would say is that, you know, I Wisdom of the natural world is one of my books, um, spiritual and practical teachings by plants, animals, and mother nature. And basically I say that I utilize the natural world to be my teacher, because a lot of times when I have a thought, like I'm not good enough. 

GDC: I don't belong. I need to be shorter. I need to be taller. I need to be something beyond myself. I look out into the natural world and I say to the tree, do you think that way too? Do you think you're too tall? The tree's like, what the hell are you talking about? I am me. Then I go to the rosebush and I'm like, do you think, are you jealous of that tree? 

GDC: Why are you so sharp? But you smell so good. And the rosebush is like, I'm just being me. And so when, When we think about the concepts of I'm not good enough, I'm unlovable, I need to be something beyond myself, that's man made, that's man made, so check it at the door and realize that the natural world, when you go in there, and you're not like, oh, I love you, natural world, the natural world will look at you and go, yeah, you're a part of us, Did you forget you are the natural world too? 

GDC: And so that's what I would say. 

Chris: I love that. I, I love that so much. I mean, I think that the Oak trees are often, uh, holding, holding me towards my own growth and like holding that down for me so I can just keep growing into being as big and tall and strong as I can be. Um, and then at the same time, like. 

Chris: Literally communing and singing with the trees and with the birds and like these experiences that I had at Pivotal Moments were the land's way, nature's way of saying no, you're a native too. Like you are kin, like we are kin, like you wouldn't be having these experiences, you wouldn't have this communication open if like the land verified me where The ruptures of colonialism, like, destroyed that lineage, you know, and I think, um, that attunement to the land, to the trees, to, to nature, um, is, of course, that indigenous mode of witnessing of necessary necessarily. 

Chris: You know, I also had, I've, I remember too, I had a communion with nature and I felt like they didn't, they weren't like COVID's coming, but, but they were like, some shit is coming. You know what I mean? Like, you need to like go and be home with your people. And like, I was in Santa Cruz and, and, and like, you know, prepare in a sense. 

Chris: And so they give warnings as well. And I mean, thinking about the, the witnessing of the lights. Um, how we, we, how we would perceive them, um, and engage with them naturally and allow the authenticity of that moment to emerge without the filtration of just like quote unquote knowing better or knowing through our logical mind or rational mind or whatever it is. 

Chris: There's a divine witness. Definitely. I think in that moment, you know, that I think is also very comforting against, you know, when nature roars against us. So that's what I think. 

Asha: Oh, I love, I love all of this. Um, what comes to mind, sometimes I need a little time to reflect, um, was, you know, when the eclipse was happening, what I thought was really astonishing was how much fear there was, you know, my children had to come home, the school day was canceled. 

Asha: And I thought, Oh my goodness, this is like the natural world. Um, we have lost our connections so deeply to the natural world that we are now hiding in our homes and canceling school. And that was quite sad for me. And in a lot of our teachings that day, there was a lot of teachings that were being shared that the sun and the moon were, were, you know, coming together as one. 

Asha: So actually we should leave and let them be, let them be and do their thing and let creation do their thing. So. It was interesting to me, almost it felt like, you know, there was this hiding, there was this fear, there was this, um, almost a disconnection to perhaps the awe, the beauty, the grace, the, the things that of course we should be relating to every single day. 

Asha: And of course, as, um, GDC says, like that's, that's in our natural world, our daily walk every single day, those teachings. So I thought that was really interesting about what it brought forward and just noticing perhaps what the collective consciousness is. And what these events stir up or bring up, um, and then those, those lights were so gorgeous, you know, and we see all the pictures and all the colors. 

Asha: And, um, I read a teaching from an elder saying, you know, it really is our ancestors dancing in the sky. It's the spirits dancing together. And I thought, imagine we all just knew that. And we saw, Oh my goodness, that's my star ancestor. That's my grandfather. They're all dancing. They're happy. They're showing us their joy. 

Asha: So I like to think of it that way. I thought that was really beautiful. But I'm so grateful to listen to all of your thoughts around that because it's definitely a phenomenon. It definitely gives me an awe and brings me back to that childhood presence. 

Amy: I want to know, and whoever feels most compelled to speak to this first, please unmute, what's your favorite way of fostering the radical hope, is the turn of phrase that Chris used. 

Amy: What, what's your go to? I think our listeners and our community and literally everyone we know, needs. Because we can talk about hope, um, as a feeling, but Risa and I lately have been talking about hope as an action item. And so, what's your go to action item when you're looking to foster? radical hope. 

GDC: Um, I'll jump in, um, and then I'll develop my thoughts. And then you guys jump in and I'm like, shoot, I should have said that. But honestly, the most tangible thing is this conversation right here. That is the action of hope in the last few years. Now I'll just say I'm Gen X. And, um, so you can kind of gauge me. 

GDC: Oh, she's so cute. days, you know, but at the end of the day, I was native indigenous before it was cool. I know what it feels like to want to dye my hair blonde and get blue contacts. You know, I was always proud that I could tan really well though, you know, but at the end of the day, I, I wanted to fit in. 

GDC: Uh, when I was a child, I think a lot of us experienced that and then the next thing that happens is all of a sudden I wake up one day and everybody's like, Oh, my God, you're Native American. You're indigenous. And I'm like, Yeah, is that why? Why did it change? And, and I've been asked in the last few years questions that I've never even asked myself. 

GDC: Like, what do you want to be called? And I'm like, well, I don't know. Did I have a choice? Like, this is new to me. I did not know that I, oh, now I have to come up with an answer to appease the guilty white man so that they can get it right again? I'm sorry, I'm going there, you know, and it's just like, well, you can call me granddaughter crow or karma bitch, you know, I mean, so I get a little fun. 

GDC: But at the end of the day, beginning of the dialogue, we are at the beginning of the dialogue. And nothing happens unless we start those conversations. And as much as I feel in the last few years, Oh my God, I've got to come up with a statement for, you know, my people. And it's like, no, you know, the missing witches say, no, no, no, no, Tell us of your experience, just yours. 

GDC: And I'm like, Ooh, I get to do that. You know, it's, it's this whole thing of having a dialogue, starting the conversation, tripping and failing, you know, and all of that kind of stuff through whatever this is and, and, and the permission that, you know, Risa gave us, you know, you could be someone different in five minutes and heck, I just might do that, you know, maybe I'll be like, Oh, I want to be called red body woman, you know, that's, that's kicking, you know, call me that, you know, but at the end of the day, Today, what brings me the most hope beyond the fact that my people came from, they were, they were going to be exiled. 

GDC: All of us in one way or another were exiled, even if you're a female body or if you are a queer or if you are, you know, the redhead in the room or whatever, you know, We have the spirit and we can come together with drums and song and music and nature. But quite honestly, if we want to use the hopeful in an action item, it's what you guys are doing right here. 

Asha: I'll jump in with something because again, it's always interesting how it kind of I sink into my body first and just feel it and hope is, um, hope is a feeling for me in those moments where I say more of this creator more of this please, and it's like, Noticing the light sunlight dancing on the water and I have to take a moment consciously to be like more of this creative more of this please or going ice skating under the moonlight with my children and I just get this like beautiful vibration of expanding that somehow, because those beautiful moments we can get so wrapped up in. 

Asha: What is not beautiful. And I think those moments are moments. So hope is like a moment by moment gathering up and collection of things that I have to imprint in my heart and imprint in my vision and become the dream. It has to become part of my dream. So yeah, that's what it is to me. 

Chris: I love those images, Asha, and I love what you're saying, granddaughter crow. 

Chris: I like, go there. I love, I love that. We can go there. I'm always here for that. Um, I think that also what comes to mind for me, like hope when I personally, um, am faltering as I put on my playlists and, and I sing, honestly, I just love singing and music and then prayer. Like, personally, like those things are like really. 

Chris: Um, like music has saved my life, like truly it has helped me survive onward and there's something when you feel when you're constantly silenced or when you feel shamed and repressed that learning your own radiance learning how you can project learning your different voices like and then along with the rhythm and a cadence and there's just something that like shakes it off and blasts it off and I think that um, it transmutes. 

Chris: The energy around you as well. Um, and then, and then being in certain spaces of nature. Absolutely. Like, I got to be by a body of water. I got to be under a tree or whatnot. You know, those are, those are very important places. And then, of course, uh, communally, uh, gathering, you know, being able to find like minded souls and spend time together. 

Chris: Um, it pulls you out of, again, like this isolated, like the world on your shoulders kind of a thing. Um, and then my, and then the last thing on this list is just that it is a choice. You know, it's a choice that you, it's, there's no magic to it other than you can just, you just have to choose to make it daily over moment against moment in moment and you learn the pattern, you know, but it's, there's no other magic to it within the choice of it. 

Chris: As well, I 

GDC: just got to jump back in and say, yes, and yes, and it kind of takes me back to the thought of what we were just talking about, about the liberation and about, you know, the self determination and collective healing is to make that choice. You are liberated and it is your decision. And you know, there used to be this old saying gigo garbage in garbage out and, but there is a truth to that. 

GDC: And if we can take in the moments of the beauty of I envision under a full moon Ice skating with your two boys and I'm just like, oh, I want to be there except for I don't ice skate But I'll watch and drink hot cocoa But you know or this idea of being by the body of water and that it's your choice That to me speaks volumes of Disciplined mind and a disciplined spirit that has been taken through the fire and says, you know what, 

GDC: been to hell and back. And one thing that I know that I got to do is stay in the moment and keep my head up, you know, keep my head up. So I really, I really love, love, love, love, love that. I love it. 

Amy: Before we, um, run out of time here, we always want to honor the time that we said, um, but it's very important to us that, um, our listeners have access to supporting you. 

Amy: So, um, Chris, what is the best way for our listeners to support your work? If you can list off. everything you have that's for sale or, or, and if you could also add if you have a favorite Indigenous led support organization that you would love for our listeners to support during our reparations fundraiser, we'd love to hear that too. 

Amy: No pressure. We just want to know how our listeners can best support you in your work. Um, 

Chris: thank you. I can't, time flies. My gosh, you're having fun, when you're, when we're imagining and talking the future into being, um, Obviously, everyone can support me by buying my book, Red Tarot, that would be great. And then, uh, the red read on Substack is really the main thing that I'm trying to grow and, um, the way that I connect with my community versus, you know, You can follow me on socials too, I'm not gonna be mad at you for doing that, but like, you know, other people own that shit, whereas like, I like, you know, having my own relationship. 

Chris: It's not, and it's not just like a newsletter, it's my writing. It's really like, uh, I like the platform a lot. Um, and then thereredread. com for, um, a reading, for, uh, just, that's just the main website, you know? Um, I'm local in San Diego. But traveling, um, and really any, any organization in your location that supports missing and murdered indigenous women, um, in that, in those orgs, of course, as supporting, um, the reparations project that y'all have been ongoing as well would be great. 

Chris: Um, and so again, thank you all for this invitation and for the space and for the work. It's an honor to be in conversation with you all. 

Risa: I'll just also plug, um, On the Red Reed, there are so many wonderful courses that you can take with Christopher. Christopher teaches advanced tarot courses, astrology. 

Risa: There's some really, really deep, deep insight there. So you can take classes too. 

Chris: Can I talk, can I name one more? Um, 

Risa: yes, 

Chris: I'm, I'm in, I'm in session now. I do live classes, I do like downloadable classes, but I have one, um, Augering the Animal. Um, because of course, decolonization is not possible without. Um, also stepping out of our anthropomorphic, I always get that, I always can't say that word, but anthropomorphic, you know what I'm saying, um, human centered view, right, where it's like we're extending personhood to our animal relations, and so that's of course about animals in the tarot, but also that, and that's opening up for enrollment. 

Chris: On May 26. So pretty soon here. And so thank you for that plug in that, that nudge. 

Amy: And that connects beautifully to your latest project, Asha. Do you want to start from the future and work backwards? Yeah! 

Asha: The future! And the future is, yes, magnificent. Um, yeah, my, I have a new Oracle deck called the Animal Elders Oracle. 

Asha: It just went out on pre sale. It's not coming out till December 4th, but you know, for authors, pre orders It's so vitally important, like truly they're everything. So if anybody feels drawn to that, it's designed or illustrated by this beautiful artist that is from, are from Anishinaabe territories and they are Ojibwe as well. 

Asha: So it's a very beautiful co creation of two Ojibwe beings creating this medicine in the world. And yes, I would love if you felt drawn to pre order that. And of course I have my book, You Are the Medicine, that came out, uh, last year. Two years ago, two and a half years ago, and then my Oracle deck, the Sacred Medicine Oracle that came out last year. 

Asha: And of course, um, those are, I, I always say my best work really is in my creations and in my, um, healing circles or workshops. You won't necessarily see it on Instagram, although I am on there and I do post there, but I really like to pour my capacity into my creation. So if you want to go deeper with me, those are the places to go. 

Asha: And my website's ashafrost. com. 

Asha: Oh, and then, oh, and then I, I really want everybody to like support your, your reparation month because I just think this is, I actually am going to like really try to promote this too on my socials because it's so important what you're doing. And I'm so blessed that you invited me here and we're part of this conversation. 

Asha: So miigwech. 

Amy: Yeah, Toronto does have a Native Women's Shelter that functions similarly to the Native Women's Shelter of Montreal, so if you are in Ontario, um, definitely take a look at that. GDC, tell us about all of your prolific, prolific, prolific I 

GDC: love it. Um, you know, first I'd like to say, Thank you. 

GDC: Attending and watching the podcast, especially in May and gaining some more awareness around these types of conversations is an excellent way to be able to support yourself in your thinking of moving forward in the future and how to do that responsibly, ethically, synthesized, honor, respect, be you, be liberated. 

GDC: So I just wanted to say, yeah. Cheers to you guys for doing this. Um, all you got to remember is granddaughter crow. Granddaughter crow. Google it. All my stuff is in there. You know, you can reach me at www. granddaughtercrow. com Right now the number one promotion thing that I'm doing is I just started a podcast, Belief Being and Beyond. 

GDC: I've had the missing which is on the podcast and you know I'm gonna be sliding into your DMs to say hey, so, you know, But, um, yeah, the belief being in beyond podcast is really it's a, it's a, it's a shorter podcast, about 2023 minutes. And we really, I like to say that bring a lot of amazing people with a variety of different belief systems and approaches to the world so that we can all stretch our minds. 

GDC: And so, um, that's, that's one thing. It's, it's, You know, I'm a YouTube channel at granddaughter crow. Um, also anywhere you get your podcasts, you can download. So that's my number one thing. Otherwise, yeah, I have a few books coming, or I had a few books that I've already released, uh, journey of the soul, the path of the medicine person, um, wisdom of the natural world, uh, virtual and practical teachings from plants, animals, and mother earth. 

GDC: Um, the latest one was Belief, Being, and Beyond, which is what the podcast is named after. I have a couple of contracts, uh, for future books. So, you know, I'm going to hit up Missing Witches and get on their podcast, because next year in February, Shamanism and shadow work book is coming and so and then after that Title two, you know, there's another one coming after that. 

GDC: So yeah, if you're digging what I'm throwing down Then that means that you're a little cray cray, too And I love you all and as far as supporting You know, absolutely follow your heart. There's so many different opportunities, but I would like to add, if you are on social media, like subscribe and follow indigenous creators, the algorithm will see that you can lift people up. 

GDC: And, uh, by the way, I'm on social media at granddaughter crow. com. 

Risa: Yes. Amplify. Indigenous voices, but also, I mean, I love the way. You have multiply put this throughout this conversation, you know, like find the people who are failing at Empire, you know, find the, find the weirdos who don't belong and haven't successfully fit in and aren't masking correctly and aren't hiding their sorrow and rage right. 

Risa: And aren't behaving well on, or who are showing their cracks at the edges, you know, those are, those are our people and we're gonna build something new together and we're gonna choose it and not collapse into despair. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Kevin, so much for being here. Remember, you can support the Missing Witches Reparation fundraiser by donating to the organization of your choice, um, and then send us the receipt and get entered for fabulous prizes. 

Risa: Amy, you got details and scoops about that to remind us? 

Amy: I will just say that we really encourage you to seek out a local organization. We've had so many emails from people saying that I took this as an opportunity to look into it and I found a local organization that I didn't know existed. And so that is ideally what we want you to do. 

Amy: And I'll spare you the whole list for now, but make a donation of 10 or more to your local Indigenous led, um, support organization. And Send us a copy of the receipt. Don't forget, you get to keep your tax write off. We never touch the money. There's no skimming off the top or administration fees on our end. 

Amy: We just want you to help your local Indigenous population. And you could win a prize! And even if you don't win a prize, you'll automatically get a discount code from HouseSwitch if you want to shop there. There are a million reasons to join our reparations fundraiser. And you can find some of them. I'm sure you'll come up with your own in your own glorious radical imaginations, but go to missingwitches. 

Amy: com slash reparations dash fundraiser dash 2024. Or if that's too much to remember missingwitches. com slash reparations, and that'll be linked in that post as well. Thank you again so much Chris, Asha, granddaughter Crow, just for being in circle with us and just being fucking radical human beings. We love you so much. 

Risa: We love you so much. Don't hesitate to reach out with all future projects. We want to plug all projects and ideas and hang out and talk about them. Also just, you know, whenever you feel like coming back on the podcast, we like hanging out with you all. You're brilliant. I mean, give us a lot of hope and a lot of joy. 

Risa: So thank you so much. And blessed fucking be. 

Amy: And blessed fucking be. 

If you want to support the Missing Witches Project, join the coven. Find out how at missingwitches. com

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