Litha 2024: Cartomancy With Sonia Fernández LeBlanc, Zoe Flowers, and the Missing Witches Deck Of Oracles

the whys and ways of cartomancy

Amy Torok
Jun 20, 2024
62 min read
Sonia Fernández LeBlanc, Zoe Flowers, and the Missing Witches Deck Of Oracles

It's a double occasion party! Amy is joined by Sonia Fernández LeBlanc, Zoe Flowers, and the MW Coven to celebrate Litha - the Summer Solstice - and throw an early birthday party for the Missing Witches Deck Of Oracles.

We talk about the whys and ways of cartomancy then open the floor to pull cards from Zoe and Sonia's extensive deck collections and from the MW deck, doing readings to answer questions from the Coven.

Some of the cards we pulled from the Missing Witches Deck of Oracles during the meeting

Listen now - transcript below:

Sonia Fernández LeBlanc is a medicinal storyteller, contemplative futurist, an esoteric interfaith scholar at the intersection of personal sovereignty and community care. She is a tarot reader, and a contributor to the new book Dreaming with Bees. Find her and book a reading on her instagram:

Zoe flowers is a mystic, poet, teacher, a candle-maker, a tarot reader, and author of From Ashes To Angel’s Dust and In Praise of the Wytch. Find her and book a reading on her instagram:

The Missing Witches Deck of Oracles is available for pre-order now - out July 9th!

PREORDER from our bookshop

The Missing Witches Deck of Oracles by Risa Dickens and Amy Torok, illustrated by Amy Torok is available for pre-order now - out July 9th!


Amy: The Missing Witches podcast follows the wheel of the year, with true histories of real witches in the autumn, and meditations on kinship with the more than human world in the spring. 

Risa: Stay with us in the off season for The Missing Witches prescription, plus interviews and Sabbat specials all year round. 

Amy: Join us! As we change with the seasons, but always return to our root. 

Risa: If you want to support the Missing Witches project, join the coven! Find out all about it at missingwitches. com. 

Amy: Hi coven! It's the summer solstice and we are celebrating! 

Amy: It's a double party. We're celebrating, obviously, this. Longest day, shortest night of our year, the summer solstice, Litha, as some of us refer to it. And we are also having an early birthday party for the Missing Witches deck of oracles, which is coming out on July 9th. It was something that was always in the back of our heads and it's really amazing to be able to hold it in our hands now, to take it out of our heads and put it into our hands. 

Amy: And, um, I wish Risa was here. because she, she, she got a copy of the deck and pulled a card and it was the most perfect card that could possibly have been pulled. The same goes for me, I was looking for a bit of advice and I just got the word that I needed to hear in that moment, so I hope this deck works for y'all too. 

Amy: Um, we have invited two of our favorite cartomancers to join us and talk about cards and why cards and what cards and how cards. So I want to give a big, warm, Missing Witches, summer solstice, heatwave, sweaty, huggy, kissy welcome to Sonia Fernandez LeBlanc, who is a medicinal storyteller. A contemplative futurist, an esoteric interfaith scholar at the intersection of personal sovereignty and community care, and, if that's not enough, a contributor to the new book, Dreaming with Bees. 

Amy: Hi, Sonia. 

Sonia: Hey, thank you for having me. Thank you. So glad to 

Amy: be here. Always a pleasure to see your angel face. And also, our very, very good friend, Zoe Flowers, mystic, poet, teacher, candle maker, tarot reader, and an author, the author of two books, From Ashes to Angels Dust, and In Praise of the Witch. Thank you so much, Zoe, for being here with me tonight. 

Zoe: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. 

Amy: I'm excited, too, because, again, you two are, I think of you both as, as cartomancers, you know, in the truest sense of the, the word. And I, I want to talk to you about, again, the who, what, why, where, when, and hows of using cards as divination tools or, or whatever I've heard. 

Amy: tools you use them as. But first, I'm hoping that you can expand on my introduction of you. Let's start with Sonia. Who are you today? Who are you on the summer solstice of 2024? 

Sonia: Ah, oh, yeah, I'm gonna take a breath about it. Because, um, I am really, like, Abundant and expansive. And I, that is never something I say I am. 

Sonia: I am not familiar with the way I feel right now. Um, and so I am just like kind of patting myself on the back. Cause I'm like, listen, I have these spiritual practices that I've been putting in, um, to my, like, life for the past few years and staying true to them, like, long game in it. And I feel like, finally, it's all, like, it's paying off in a way that 

Sonia: my mental health is, is feeling like a little bit of a, oh, yeah, you're okay. Everything's gonna be okay, even though it's all burning. I'm okay. And so that is so strange for me at this moment. And so I'm just like, like loving the light and just sitting and staring out into space a lot and just being in contemplation about all of it. 

Sonia: Um, and so I don't know, like, I don't even know who I am right now, but I'm like, let's keep it up because we're at the top of the wave and you know, it's You know, it's going to crash. So when it does, I have all my tools. I've got all my 

Zoe: tools. 

Sonia: So yeah, 

Amy: all your tools, all your tools to rebuild when it, when it comes crashing. 

Amy: But I'm so happy that you're on a high right now while the sun is also on a high with us. Zoe, who are you today right now in this summer solstice moment of being who is Zoe Flowers? 

Zoe: How transparent do we want to be? 

Zoe: Always up 

Amy: to you, my darling. Always up to you. 

Zoe: It's been a day. Um, who am I? You know, it's interesting. I got this, speaking of cards, I got this five of pentacles in reverse right now. This positive change, this recovery. And so I feel like that's probably where I am. You know, full disclosure, I am caretaking, um, full time for an aging parent. 

Zoe: And so like you, Sonia, it's I'm tapping into my tools. Okay, and and so today was a challenging day, but I have my tools and I have a voice and so I guess who I am today is a person who tapped into many tools to talk to many medical people in my outside voice. 

Amy: And you had to use your outdoor voice. But I feel you. 

Amy: I mean, you know that I have experience with this too. And that when that card reverses, and you become the parent to your parent, it's, it's exhausting, of course, you know, like the practical aspect of going to doctor's appointments, like cleaning up and The bathroom, whatever it might be, but it's also a mindfuck. 

Zoe: Yes, it is. It's 

Amy: also an absolute mindfuck to be the parent to your parents. Yes, 

Intro: it is. 

Amy: Godspeed you both on your roller coasters right now. But we have tools. We have tools and we have a coven. That's right. So, um, I'm going to stick with you, Zoe, and I want to know, like, why cards? How did you become drawn to cards as a tool that you use? 

Amy: Um, if you want to start with, like, your first deck, or your last deck, or just whatever spirit was it that, that drew you into cardomancy? 

Zoe: I wish I knew. I mean, I feel like, you know, I would say in the spiritual aspect, the astrology, I always thought was my thing. Like, I was always into that. My first deck was the Aquarian Tarot. 

Zoe: Um, I bought it in a little store in Florida, not Panama, um, like Destin, Destin, Florida. I wandered into a little witchy store and I saw this very unusual deck. Um, I don't know why it called to me and I just started working with it. I didn't really know what I was doing. Um, and then I got, so I guess my real first deck, it was, uh, IFA inspired Afro Brazilian And I got it probably my second or third year living in New York City. 

Zoe: And it's just my intuition, everything, because it's such an obscure deck that it just forced my intuition to just like get bigger. And, um, so before that I never really played with Tarot. I may have had a few affirmation decks, but, um, once I got that Afro Brazilian deck, something just, something just like clicked for me. 

Zoe: And And then I started acquiring Oracle decks and I was like, oh, these are more directional and there's such a variety and they can kind of tell me what to do. And. Then I got my Reiki too and Reiki too makes you more psychic. So it's like once I got my Reiki too, my Tarot reading just became a part of my healing work. 

Zoe: I was doing body scans on people and I would pull a card for them and I just incorporated it into my Reiki work. And then the next thing you know, it's like my Reiki kind of not got put to the side, but I wasn't doing it as much. And then all of a sudden I was just doing the cards, cards, cards, cards, cards, cards, all the time. 

Zoe: And so, yeah, it just started with that very obscure deck. It was very organic. I 

Amy: love that it was an Aoife deck, which, you know, Aoife has many, many tools of divination, but, like, you know, this is a crossover that I love to see. Do you find that you work more with, like, tarot proper, or that you're just, like, a pansexual cartomancer? 

Amy: I am definitely a 

Zoe: pansexual 

Amy: cartomancer. 

Zoe: Um, I, I, I probably have more. Oracle decks because there are so many different kinds, um, because I do herbal readings and animal readings and so and crystal readings. And so these Oracle cards allow me to give a more expansive reading. Um, with my tarot cards, I don't have as many, you know, I've got 150 decks at this point. 

Zoe: Whoa! Yes. 

Intro: Yes. 

Zoe: And, um, I started to sell some last year. I've only sold about 13 and then I haven't bought like five more. So it's like, I mean, I have a million decks right here. So, so there's so many different beautiful Oracle decks out there. Um, and I like to tell. do readings in stories. So I like decks that are familiars and I, and I read by the seasons, right? 

Zoe: So now we're in Gemini season. And so I am using my sort of Gemini season cards. And so I like for my Tarot decks to be ethereal and I like to go by colors and I have like Tarot and Oracle families that I like to read in. 

Amy: I love that you have a seasonal wardrobe. That's because I 

Zoe: got so many decks. I was like, having all these freaking decks. 

Zoe: So it's like, okay, if I, if I change them by zodiac season, then I'll get to, I'll have more of a chance to use them all. I mean, there's some that I just don't pull that often from, but 

Amy: yeah. You're brilliant. That's a, that's a brilliant rationalization. I'm proud of you for coming up with it. 

Intro: I 

Amy: receive it. 

Amy: How about Sonia? I, same question. How cards? Why cards? When cards? 

Intro: What 

Sonia: cards? It's wild. Okay. So I'm a storyteller. So, um, the, so I'll go back. I'm going to go back in history to the turn of the millennium. You know, y'all remember that long ago? It feels like it wasn't that long ago, but I keep getting Instagram posts that said that it was a long time ago. 

Sonia: So I have to go with that, but I had a dear friend. She was one of my best friends from high school and she was like, just. And like, she was an artist and she was like this and I was like, I'm going to be successful. I'm in the music business and I don't have time for anybody's bullshit. And I was like, deep in my like toxic masculine energy. 

Sonia: Um, uh, Time. And she, for my birthday, my birthday is June 2nd. So I'm like, I guess that's probably why I'm so good right now. Cause like, I'm in my, like yummy, my yummy Gemini time. She got me this deck and I was like, Oh, that's cute, Meg. Like she went to like the little goddess in the moon, which she store in Nashville, Tennessee. 

Sonia: And I was like a recovering Catholic. That was like, you know, I didn't have time. Like the only cards I had were all the. Well, cards that the same, you know, you get from your first communion and stuff like all the prayer cards, the prayer cards. Like when somebody died, you get like the Hail Mary. Okay. So that's all I had. 

Sonia: And I would like stick them in books and then I'd come up upon them. So she got me this deck and I had this, um, theology section of my, of my books collection. I am a book, I collect books. I read books, but I love to collect, um, All kinds of spirituality across like comparative religions. And I had like the history of hell and I had like this little section, like the towel of poo. 

Sonia: And so she gave me this deck and I was like, thank you. And I put it as like a display with all of those, like my old catechism book from high school. And I traveled, I lived in all over Nashville, Baltimore, back to Nashville. Just kept this little deck of cards, never opened it. Not even one time kept it with me all. 

Sonia: And then I had a nervous breakdown and then I was in this, like I had babies and I was in postpartum and I went through this decade long, like healing. And in 2018. Um, I, well, in 2017, I started doing this women's circle and they were using cards and I was like, but they were the oracles. And so I was like, Oh, those are cool. 

Sonia: But I don't know, I'm not really into, I don't, I don't know anything about that. And then I started reading Adrienne Marie Brown and I started following her in 2018 on Instagram and she did this daily. Card pull and she just started pulling it and saying I do this for my mental health And i'm gonna pull a card every day and I was like that and then she made this recommendation of little red tarot And she said if you go to little red tarot and buy your tarot deck you're gonna get it. 

Sonia: They they are Queer and indigenous and, uh, by POC, like all of it. Like they, this little Red Tarot, they do everything and they also have all these articles and stuff. And this was back when Little Red Tarot was an actual, like a whole deal. Like they, there were different writers that were on there. It was a whole blog. 

Sonia: And so I started studying, I started going to Little Red Tarot and like reading through, and I got that deck out, and I started going through it, and it did not have the traditional, like, cups, and it had weird, it was weird, and so I thought it was an oracle deck, and so for like months I was pulling cards thinking it was an oracle deck, but also studying these tarot, like, Messages and then I went and got what I thought was my first deck, which was Tara del fuego. 

Sonia: Um, and then I started like comparing them. Like I pull up. And I don't even remember what it was called. It was super and it also I feel like it was really inappropriate and gross kind of like the mother. What's the circular one that has like lots of problems. Anyway, I feel like this deck was problematic. 

Sonia: It was from the early 2000s. I don't think about it. But as I pulled it, I was like, This feels gross, and also, I love Terra del Fuego, and I'm pulling them, and I'm reading, and then I started understanding the deck, like, tarot cards, and then when I would pull one from this other deck that I thought was Oracle, it, the messages kind of were like, oh, Hierophant, and this is this ancient dude. 

Sonia: And this one, oh my God, this is the tarot deck. Okay. So that was 2018. And so then I got myself together and I started deeply studying. I studied through Lindsay Mack and I studied and I did it specifically for my mental health. But also it was so fun to just like be in community with people who also were interested. 

Sonia: And so we were like pulling them and trying to learn. And I was learning the archetypes and I was learning the stories behind the different decks. And I was like, this is like a storybook like these. And then I started like understanding that like the major Arcana is a storyline. And over the years, I. 

Sonia: Learned the tarot by giving readings for free and then writing, because I'm a writer and a storyteller and writing people's, like what I felt and I would, and I began this process of calling in. Cause I'm very connected to my ancestors, but I also have this ability to like tap in and create this circle within, like we, I bring in our pantheon. 

Sonia: And so I would just be like, okay, we're going to pull these cards and like, let's just see. And. I, I was very much, uh, uh, uh, connected to this idea of the cards are giving the message and the message is not predictive. Like this is not fortune telling. This is just like how to support your energy right now. 

Sonia: And how can you have energy being pulled? And so I just started playing with that. And over the course of, I'd say from 2019 to 2021, I. Wrote out, I made a book of these interpretations and then I connected in the way that Kim Kranz does with her archetype deck, um, where she does this like extra, like she does this little thing at the bottom that's like go further. 

Sonia: Right. And so I, I really loved that. And because I'm such a voracious reader and resource, like that's just who I am. Yes, ma'am. That's it. Archetype. I started doing those 

Amy: of you who are listening, Zoe just held up exactly what Sonia was talking about. So we're all connected. 

Sonia: Yes. Um, and I was like, I want to do that. 

Sonia: So I began this process of like, Connecting and using, I don't know, just going with my intuition, like my Ace of Wands, for example, the Artist's Way by Julia Cameron, like, connects to the Ace of Wands, like, I, you know, and, and, um, Octavia Butler and the Parable of the Sower is Two of Wands, so I would do this, like, little extra, so, I'm going to pull your card, but then I'm going to give you even more to go and study. 

Sonia: So if you're in a, if you're in two of one's energy right now, this Brit, you know, I consider it like a bridge generation card, go read Octavia Butler. Everybody should be reading heavy Butler anyway, because she's well, we'll get to that with your deck. Um, she's in there. She's in the sizes she props. She, she is telling us what we're coming into, but, um, Anyway, so I, and so I just kept playing with it. 

Sonia: And now I realized that all of those free things that I did and all of the, this book I created with these interpretations that I gave to other people, my past self created that so that my present self can pull that energy and I can receive the messages from myself that I need to focus in and get. 

Sonia: That groundedness that I didn't have before, but it took the study of the tarot to get me to in 2024, take this, these messages and like, It just centers. And I was like, Oh, that's the whole point. That's the whole reason why I do it. So I don't even do that much reading for people anymore. Now I just kind of pull a card a day and go read what I wrote for myself as a way of like my own Bible, right? 

Sonia: My Bible to myself. And then if people, you know, I'm a projector in human design. So if you invite me to read for you, then I'll do it. But I don't like, I'm not like a projector. I'm not promoting myself in that way, just because that's not the way my energy is and now, but it's, uh, but like this book and the way that I read it and study it and the way that I use it as like a phonology program for myself, like, like on the wheel of the year, it just has been so supportive for me. 

Sonia: And so I love it. It's like my, my most grounded practice that I do. 

Amy: Yeah, a lot of people, you know, talk about fortune telling and divination, but a lot of people, especially nowadays, the modern witch really talks about using cards as like, like you say, to support our mental health, to support our questioning, our intuition, our ideas. 

Amy: Um, I pulled out the Octavia Butler card. For those of you who are listening to the podcast, I will put this card. In the show notes, so that you can see it too, so that you won't be left out. I will say Sonia and Zoe both have advanced copies of the deck, um, so maybe they will pull one of the cards from the Missing Witches deck of oracles for you tonight. 

Amy: I do want to, um, ask the Coven if you do have a question and would like the three of us to or one of us specifically, it's fine, um, to pull a card for you and try to give you some insight. I see a hand already. And, um, before you unmic Killian, I want to know, Zoe, Sonia, we've all heard this sort of mythology that your first deck has to be gifted to you, or somehow it doesn't count. 

Amy: Now, Zoe, you Acquired your first deck by yourself. Sonia, your first deck was a gift that was given to you. How do you feel about this rule? 

Zoe: I mean, I don't feel a way about it. I've had students ask me about it and I was like, well, I bought mine. I mean, they also say like I'm a Libra. I'm not supposed to buy my own. Opal jewelry, but I did. So now what 

Amy: do you think, Sonia? 

Zoe: I think, 

Sonia: I think you should do whatever the fuck you want to do. Don't think it. 

Sonia: I think anybody trying to like Put restrictions or rules on shit like that. Like I just want to, I come from the South. So bless their heart. They're there, they're working to do something and there's some control. And I just say, release the control and go do whatever the fuck you want and acquire it or don't, or wait for it to be gifted. 

Sonia: But if you really want to do something and you want to play with Tarot, go get yourself a Tarot deck, 

Amy: Rachel in the chat says, if you get it for your. If you get yourself a deck, it is a gift from you to you, so if you love rules, I don't know who's listening to this podcast, thinks of themselves as a witch and really loves to follow rules, but if you are one of those people, I'm sure you exist, then you can gift yourself, treat yourself, Killian, what's your question for the cards? 

Coven 2: Hi. So I have an interview tomorrow for a new job. So I just want to have any messages about that process. 

Amy: I love it. Let's see. 

Coven 2: Please and thank you. 

Amy: Of course. I'm going to shuffle a bit. Zoe, Sonia, you're welcome to whatever deck you're drawn to. I'm using the Missing Witches deck of Oracles, of course. But if you're drawn to pull from something else for Achillean, I totally, totally, totally am behind you on that choice and decision. 

Amy: And Well, Killian, for you, we pulled Monica Cho, and I will also, every card that we pull tonight, I will put to the side so that those of you who are listening at home after the fact can also get a sense. Um, you probably know who Monica Cho is, just an absolute fucking badass, but I'll, I'll be specific about what the card says for now. 

Amy: The word that we have associated with Monica's show is resolve, and the back of the card, again, for those of you who can't see me, the front has an illustration, the name of the witch, and a word that we've chosen that associates with that person. Then the back of the card, like Sonya was talking about prayer cards, you know, it's a description of that person, and then a prompt at the bottom of the back of the card, or the front. 

Amy: You get to choose which are the fronts and which are the back. It's magic. I love it. I'm just going to read you the card, Killian, and I'll let you interpret. One of the last great religious painters in Western art, Monica made revolutionary art and wrote revolutionary books. She wove together queer and feminist activism, art, and witchcraft. 

Amy: She was a loving mother who watched her two children die. One in a violent accident, and the other after being preyed on by high control manifestations of the new age. She was determined to paint and write and act for the complete dismantling of patriarchy. She painted women in the moonlight, together in the lunar mind. 

Amy: She sang the burning times on the altar of Bristol Cathedral, holding her painting of a goddess giving birth. giving birth to the world. She was heartbroken and fierce and danced and sang. She is with you now, asking you to root your resolve in the earth. Now, Killian, I don't know what this job interview is that you have coming up. 

Amy: If you can find resolution, um, being rooted, being a fucking revolutionary, fucking smashing the patriarchy. Um, but I will tell you for sure that whatever you're up against, Monica's show is telling you that you have the strength. of the whole earth under your feet. She was a very, um, like, feminist and revolutionary, but very earth based, very eco conscious. 

Amy: And she also was not afraid to upend the notions of the new age. She wrote a book called New Age Armageddon. She was not going to be told what to believe, ever, whether it was from a patriarchal preacher or from the New Age movement. She saw what she knew was right and knew was wrong and she operated thusly. 

Amy: Hopefully Monica's show has something to inspire you with this upcoming opportunity and maybe Sonia or Zoe wants to pull another card for you. 

Zoe: Yeah, I was desperately looking for my Black Moon Lilith deck cards, but I can't find them. They're probably on my bed. So I did an Oracle and a Tarot for you. So I pulled one from the Sacred Symbols Oracle deck and we got lucky. 

Zoe: I mean, hello, we love that. And for things like this, I like to offer mindset. So this is more like what would be a beneficial mindset as you prepare, as you go into this, um, tomorrow. And then. And then we got the sun, oh my god! So, so Yeah. And, and so this is the mindset, this is the approach. Maybe you might even want to incorporate some of these colors, um, in some way, as you go to this interview tomorrow, this green, this bright yellow, this red for passion. 

Zoe: So yeah, I would just say, keep your mind on what you're passionate about, that you're lucky that everything goes in your favor, maybe doing some cute affirmations on the way there. Um, especially if you start to feel any fear or anything rising up, just think about this sun card and the horseshit. 

Amy: Sonya, I see you shuffling. I see you shuffling, shuffling, shuffling. Okay, 

Sonia: I have a couple. So I, so I like to pull pairs. Um. For most of my things and I always pull a major and then a minor arcana that kind of support it's like a support card so the the card that I pulled the major that I pulled for you was a reverse empress oh and this is the y'all tarot cats by Anna Hwan she's one of my favorite illustrators of all time and when she had a deck come out I was like look at that look at that Empress cat. 

Sonia: Are you fucking kidding me? Um, so Empress is radical receiving, right? So it's that oxygen mask. So you need to take care of yourself first and foremost. Um, I was listening to a podcast and I can't remember the lady's name, but she talked about, uh, Only, only giving from the saucer, right? So like your cup needs to not only be full, but running over into the saucer and then you give from the saucer. 

Sonia: So, um, up until the point where you have enough insight in that saucer overflowing, then you need to be in like radical self care and receiving. And if you're going into a job interview, having yourself as like The be all and end all, um, stepping away from survival, even though we're all living in survival, like the world's a dumpster fire. 

Sonia: But if you can walk in with that Empress energy of like, I deserve everything that I receive, right? And also, um, I, it has to be correct because the, the card that I pulled, I pulled Knave of Pentacles, which is, I feel like in this deck. The name is Paige and I, my debt, when I. interpret. Uh, I call them devotees. 

Sonia: And so the devotee of pentacles is adventure, exploration, curiosity. It's, um, both, both the, the page and pentacles are rooted in earth energy. So there is like this sense of grounding. And I mean, it's just delicious. Like you're pulling Empress, which is just like nurturing rooting. And then native Pentacles is curiosity in rooting. 

Sonia: And that just like open to all the possibilities and. curious. So if walk into this in curiosity and knowing that what is for you is coming to you and then just releasing the rest. And I say, cheers. I can't wait to hear. Jillian, I hope that helped. 

Coven 2: That's amazing. Thank you guys. Fucking awesome. 

Amy: Before we move on to Deb, Zoe, Sonia, do you have a favorite deck? 

Amy: Other than, of course, the Missing Witches deck of Oracle. Everyone's new favorite. 

Sonia: I just have so many, but right now I will tell you that right now I'm doing a practice, um, that is, I'm doing this Novena thing, um, but I have been using the Seasons of the Witch decks, um, they are for each, um, wheel. So this is the Litha Oracle. And so I start using them about, um, A month before the season changes. 

Sonia: So I started using this one like June 1st, and then I'll use it till like July 15th, and then I'll start using the love times at one. Um, and I've been doing that since. That one. And they, they have a deck for every one, except they don't have spring Equinox, but I've used like a flower one, but I love this. 

Sonia: It's a whole series and I love it because it's different artists, but it's Julia. Juliet Diaz and Lorraine Anderson are the main ones and then they have different illustrators that come in and do different ones. So I love that one. 

Amy: And that ties into Zoey, your philosophy of like seasonal deck workings. 

Amy: Do you have like an all time favorite deck that you always return to? 

Zoe: Um, you know what? I do. I actually just pulled it out right before you said that. It's one of my favorites. Like you, Zoey, I have so many, but this Lightseers to Row, I mean, it is just, And then there's also like a tattoo to row deck that I love so much, but I think it's at my house because half of them are at my house, my, my apartment. 

Zoe: So many of them are here but this light Sears, it's just, I love the illustration. It shuffles I love. I'm also like a texture person so I like the way they feel. Yeah. And, um, and I'll pull the other one. There's an African, there's an African tarot too. So it's all like African royalty and it feels like velvet and it has gold in it. 

Zoe: I'll pull it. It's up there. So yeah, I'll pull it in a minute. Thank you. 

Amy: And of course, the Missing Witches deck of oracles available on July 9th and available for pre order now. We're just going to throw them up and roll around in them. Deb, do you have a question for our panel of cartomancers? 

Coven 3: I do have a question. 

Coven 3: My question is, what do I need right now? That is my basic question. What do I need right now? I'm a little bit lost in finishing the book and a little bit in the stage of I hate my life and finishing the book. 

Amy: What 

Coven 3: do I 

Amy: need? Are you even writing a book if you don't hate your life at some point? I mean, I, I feel like as I shuffle, let me just say that, you know, I believe that hating your work is a part of the creative process. 

Amy: Every single artist creator that I have ever known, um, goes through that, the rollercoaster that we were talking about at the beginning of the conversation where you're like, I'm a genius. I know nothing. Oh my goodness. I can't believe I wrote that from both sides. Like, oh my God, I can't believe I wrote that. 

Amy: And oh my God, I can't believe I wrote that. So again, I'm shuffling, I'm shuffling. Um, but just trust that like, hating your work, hating your life. It's a part of the creative process and you just have to get through that swamp in order to get to that place on the other side. So what's 

Coven 3: going to pull me to the other side? 

Coven 3: Because I can feel like I need some help right 

Sonia: now. Can I, are you getting ready to do yours? Because I just pulled one that I can't even believe I pulled it. 

Amy: Same, but you go ahead Sonia. 

Sonia: I did too. Okay, I did this one from the Litha deck that I just showed you. It's horses. Look at this art. It's so yummy. 

Sonia: And it says here, unsure of how to break out of your cage, spirit shares strength through acts of liberation. Okay. I'm going to read you what it says. Horses are meant to be wild and free, which is why they are such powerful creatures that are capable of running for long distances and over different terrain. 

Sonia: It is not uncommon to hear tales of having to break a horse when attempting to domesticate a wild one. How sad it must be for a horse to go from roaming endless landscapes to being confined to a small box inside a barn. If a horse remains bound for long enough, it may fail to see when the opportunity presents itself to run back in to the wild. 

Sonia: The horse card gallops into your reading. It could be a sign that your spirit is broken and you have lost your sense of regality and strength. You may feel stuck, stagnant, bored, or stuck in a rut, unsure of how to break out of your cage to find more passion and excitement, dig deep and reconnect with your sense of freedom. 

Sonia: Move the shoulds and supposed to dos from your perspective and follow your heart and instincts. The beauty about being free is that you can change your mind. If you go one way and find that doesn't work, simply shift directions and try something else, never apologizing. For not being caged. Oh my 

Zoe: God. 

Amy: So what did you pull for Deb? 

Zoe: So I pulled Terry Tempest Williams and it says flight. So here we have another writer who's. You know, went through lots of different things. Um, many women in her family suffering from cancer, but she writes, we need not lose hope. We just need to locate where it dwells. She finds hope dwelling in the fragile and the fragile. 

Zoe: Feathered once upon a time when women were birds. So we got the horses. Now we have the birds, right? There was a simple understanding that to sing at dawn and to sing at dusk Was to heal the world through joy heal with joy take flight and then Who else shows up? Octavia Butler. I guess she was like, y'all called me here. 

Zoe: I am honey. So we have two writers here, two guides. So perhaps, you know, taking a photo or when you get your missing witches deck, put them sort of in front of you as your guide, right? Cause you know, here they are speaking to you to carry you through. Then we have the page of swords. Take it easy on yourself. 

Zoe: Right? But again, look, what's she doing? And she's writing. Right and so and swords is all about ideas and what I feel like is maybe the ideas just aren't like coming through right now. We got the ace of wands, though, so it's like, you got that creative spark, but you just you just got stuck a little bit. 

Zoe: So, um, just give yourself a break. Take another direction. Look at things from another way as Sonia said, and be patient with yourself. 

Amy: Thank you. I promise listeners, there are 52 cards in this deck, 54 if you count. Um, we added two blanks so that you can you add your own ancestors, whether that's your grandma, or your favorite teacher. 

Amy: or someone from history who inspires you. But Deb, I pulled motherfucking Toni Morrison. I swear the deck is not all writers, but the fact that three writers got pulled in answer to your question, I think speaks volumes. I mean, you guys got 

Coven 3: my three, you got my two favorite writers, Octavia Butler and Toni Morrison. 

Coven 3: Those are Toni Morrison is my goddess. She's like, Oh my God. 

Amy: Well, um, And again, like Terry Tempest Williams, one of my favorite things about her was her honesty. She just doesn't shy away from the truth of the matter. And maybe that's what we're trying to carve through all of these. Writers came up for you tonight to tell you just write, just keep writing, and if you need to sleep that's fine, we all need to sleep. 

Amy: You write from your saucer if you need to, or you write from your cup. Just keep writing, keep writing. I hope that helped. Deb, I'm going to put Toni Morrison off to the side. I can't, I can't believe that we got, we got three, three amazing writers, which writers and brilliant. I think that bodes well for you, Deb, and what you are about to produce. 

Amy: I'm really excited. Holly, we seem to be on a roll. Let's shuffle it up. What do you got for us, Mamacita? 

Coven 4: Okay, well I was thinking I have some family health stuff going on within like external family members. So I'm really connecting with my ancestors right now and I would just love to hear whatever messages that my ancestors would like me to hear right now. 

Coven 4: What, what are they, what are they knocking on the doors? Hopefully it's a tap and not a big, Bullhorn, but what do my ancestors want me to know right now? 

Amy: Um, the card that popped out while I was shuffling is my Jean Gonzalez Whippler. Um, she is Puerto, she was, she's still alive. She's Puerto Rican. She is, um, Like, has like a PhD, you know, she's very interested in, in occult studies, in magic, um, she studied Santeria, but she also, like I say, is like a PhD who has lectured at some of the greatest universities in the world, you know, highly, highly, highly educated person, um, but one of my favorite quotes of hers is, How infinite my possibilities. 

Amy: And that's something that rings through her work, that possibilities for you, for her, for us, are infinite. And if you're, and in fact the word that we have attached to my Jean Gonzales Whippler is possibility. So if your ancestors are working through my hands as I shuffle and a card pops out, um, then they want you to know how infinite it is. 

Amy: your possibilities. I guess the problem with that is that it doesn't really narrow it down. Like, if you're looking for advice and the universe says the possibilities are infinite, that doesn't really help. But maybe it's reassuring to know that this whole universe is open to you. That you can be A mystic and also an academic that you can do both of those things at once that you don't have to choose between paths that you can create a path mixes everything that you want to do, and everything that you want to be, but your ancestors want you to know that your possibilities are infinite. 

Sonia: So I pulled, um, Anna Halprin. And so I'm going to read to you about Anna. Anna Halprin watched her grandfather twirling in the temple. She couldn't speak his language, but they were connected. Look, look, look at, look at, look at the grandparents coming out. Um, and they were connected when she saw the ecstasy of his body and prayer. 

Sonia: She revolutionized the world of dance. She created a dance that helped catch a serial killer. I don't feel like I know this story and I need to go back. Dancers walked the trails where the killings occurred. They slept on the mountain with their heads together. A few days later, police received an anonymous tip that led to the capture of the trail side killer. 

Sonia: Later, Anna danced a dance encircled by her loved ones that sent her cancer into remission. Listen, put it in their hands! Ollie! Okay, this card reminds us that when we meet monsters, we can dance to build power in ourselves and bonds of safety and shared ecstasy. And what came up for me as I was reading this was I, my, my husband's mother passed in, um, April and they had a really complicated relationship and she was a very, she was a deeply religious woman, but deeply judgmental to anyone who wasn't following her like evangelical like path. 

Sonia: And I remember when she passed, she came to me. And I wrote this poem that was just like, she knew, like, as soon as she crossed over, she remembered how we're all one and how there is no judgment and how that doesn't exist. And she was in grieving about it. And, and that made me think every one of our ancestors, even the ones that are complicated or problematic, like we can turn to them in the same way that. 

Sonia: You keep, uh, the H. P. Plovatsky in the deck. Isn't that how you say her name? And the, the, the ones that are problematic, like we're always going to have problematic, but those ancestors, because when I, when they cross over, they remember who they are. They remember the long line of their soul and the love and that unification. 

Sonia: Then we can call on them to help us as we're rooting into whatever we need support in right now. So I feel like Anna's just, and also go dance, like dance, dance with them, like around you. Yes. 

Amy: Holly, we, we know that you're a yoga teacher and obviously Anna Halprin's whole thrust was like the, the, the, the solution to the mind body dilemma and our connection to the psychic universe being movement and being embodied. 

Amy: And so I think that there's, there's maybe some connection there between, between yoga and dance for you that you can think about. 

Coven 4: Well, and also like, I, you know, I was, I dance a lot for like just movement in my life. And then earlier this year I had to stop because I was having some heart issues. And then I just got the all clear that I am actually able to do my fucking movement again. 

Coven 4: And so like mama's dancing tomorrow. 

Amy: Three cheers for Holly and regaining the ability to dance. Raise all ancestors and bless your heart, specifically, that it is now recovered to the point where you can dance. Zoe, did you pull a card for Holly? 

Zoe: I did. I did. So it's so interesting. So the first one I got was the New Moon in Cancer from the Moonology deck. 

Zoe: And it says you and your loved ones are safe. And I don't know. So because it's the new moon and cancer, we're about to go into cancer season. So this makes me feel like some kind of ritual, um, on that new moon, perhaps setting some intentions around health, wholeness, et cetera. Then I got the ritual card from Starhawk. 

Zoe: So I was like, okay, what is this? What we need? So yeah. So some kind of ritual for the new moon and perhaps it has to do with, Movement dance, and maybe it's like some kind of cute, I don't know, full moon releasing this week, and then a nice calling in in the next couple of weeks for the new moon and cancer. 

Zoe: I'm feeling specifically around emotions, deep seated emotions, resentment, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, because, you know, that's, you know, cancers love that. Did that 

Coven 4: help Holly? Amazing. Thank you. 

Sonia: Amazing. Can I, can I just add just one thing about the dance? Um, I am a part of this community where we do movement and we, we dance, it's dance. 

Sonia: So like we put music on and we, you can dance. But also it's like just getting into what needs to move. And even if that's your, your pinky finger and this, I know you're given the clear to dance, but some people that have, you know, their bodies don't feel good and they can't move and that, and it's painful. 

Sonia: Just know that movement is dance. Even if it's just like moving your, Like slow motion, right? Like this is dance, right? And, and it's just paying attention to the body. So I, that, that came up for me as I was like contemplating ritual and like what that could look like in the, I don't know, it just, it got me excited. 

Amy: Yeah, and Michelle jumped into the chat to remind us that Starhawk, um, one of her most famous books is called The Spiral Dance. And so you really have like a whole system, all telling you that the answer to, you know, what you need right now is dance. And I love that for you, Holly. I'm so happy for you that that was your reading. 

Amy: Rachel, would you like? Are cartomancers to pull a card for you? What's your question? 

Coven 5: Um, so I am turning 50 a month from tomorrow and thank you. I would like to be excited about it. I feel like the first portion of my life has been a challenge in many ways and that, um, I'm having a really hard time currently because it's my dad's Diagnosis was tied up in, um, what was going on with him and since his passing now, all I'm doing is waiting for the results of the brain autopsy to find out if it was genetic. 

Coven 5: Um, and that's making me super scared and anxious. I'm trying not to think about it all the time, and I don't want that to be the focus of my card pull. Um, but I'm finding it really, really challenging to focus on anything good. Um, and so I would like some hope for the future. That's what I would like for going into, uh, my second half century. 

Amy: We're shuffling, we're shuffling, we're shuffling. Thank you. And out pops Hattie Carthan. Now, it's funny because when Zoe and I met in person, we went to the Hattie Carthan memorial community garden, and what a beautiful day that was. It was hot, and it was gorgeous, and there were so many people in the garden, so Hattie, Hattie Carthan, um, the, the words on the card are grow roots, but what she did was she basically reforested Bed Stuy, the neighborhood in Brooklyn. 

Amy: Bedford Stuyvesant. And she put a crew of people together, um, who planted trees, who planted trees in Brooklyn. And, um, the card says, This card calls on you to make the radical choice to grow where you're planted. Own your right to deep roots. And I think, you know, again, like, part of her story was that, you know, she, she was quote unquote, older. 

Amy: She was not a young woman when she started this project. Um, I relate her to, like, the Gray Panthers, even. You know, this, like, team of women who refused to be set to the side just because they had reached the, quote unquote, you know, age of retirement, that their usefulness had somehow expired. And I relate Heidi Carthan to that. 

Amy: She didn't have land, so all of Bed Stuy became her land, you know? She didn't have a farm, so she planted trees. in Brooklyn and brought that, that sense of rootedness to her community. And I think that that's possible for you too. I know maybe you're feeling a little waving in the wind, but I think that's part of that is because You know, the roots of your father are so deep in you that he is so much a part of you that it makes you feel like you might get blown away if a stiff gust of wind comes along. 

Amy: But he is deeply, deeply, deeply rooted in you, and those deep roots allow us to grow. That's why we don't blow away when we have deep roots. You know, when our pollen can spread, and a bit of weather doesn't mean anything if our roots are deep enough, and I feel like you have cultivated deep roots like that, and you may feel like you're just like swaying in the breeze, but it's maybe because you're growing down, downward, into the ground, instead of But, sorry, if you're listening, I made like a big tree hand gesture, I guess, if you're listening at home and you can't see me. 

Amy: But maybe now is the time to like, leaf the fuck out. Maybe now is the time to flower. Maybe you are rooted, and you are rooted, and you are rooted, and now it's time to flower. That's my interpretation of Hattie Carthan's card, as it relates to your question. Sonia, Zoe, do you have ideas? For Rachel. 

Zoe: I think so. 

Zoe: I see Sonia shaking her head. So I got the star card and it's so funny because this deck is called the Roots and Wings deck. 

Zoe: And so I got the star card. So we are, we know the star is the light in the, in the tarot. It's like the light at the end of the tunnel. Um, specifically when there's, I can't, uh, after an illness or something like that. So, so I love that. Um, I would say continue to look to the stars, continue to tap into your magic and Tap into the coven, um, for that. 

Zoe: And then we got Dreaming, uh, from the Missing Witches deck. Emily came, I, I, King, King Goware, I'm not sure if that's how you pronounce her name, but this woman was a painter. She's an Indigenous woman and she became the most important artist in Australia in her 80s. So here you are starting to talk about going into your 50s and that resonates for me too. 

Zoe: I have some of those same, like, Oh, I, Wasted time, blah, blah, blah. But no, Emily is here to say it's never too late. Okay. It's never too late. 

Sonia: All right. So for the lithodec, I pulled hydration. Which listen, drink lots of water. I mean, I mean, I'm not even going to read the message for that because it speaks for itself. Stay hydrated. Um, that just supports those roots and the leafing that's about to happen now. I, I don't know. I just, um, I just needed to pull my mini Queens tarot, um, deck, my Leti Jane, um, Renekamp. 

Sonia: It's an old deck of mine. Look at these eyeballs. Do you see them? And it's this glorious black and white deck where it's all like androgynous and trans. And listen, three popped out at the same time. Are you ready? Yes, hero fan lovers. and the tower and now people get scared when tower comes out but i'm gonna tell you a story about the tower the tower is just the next step it is just and and the thing about the tower is The foundation, even if you get knocked all the way down, right? 

Sonia: It's because there was something wrong with the foundation and you got to build back up. So it's always an opportunity, even though it feels like, like, like apocalypse, but you know, and, and Adrienne Brown's one of my favorite humans. And she always says, we're all, somebody's always living in apocalypse and, and has. 

Sonia: And has thrived through it, right? So this shows me that you are entering into a new phase, and there is some teardown that has to happen. And that's always going to be true, right? But like, especially in this, like, next iteration that you're stepping into. Lovers are a mirror, right? This isn't about somebody else. 

Sonia: This is about you loving the fuck out of yourself. And, and, and, and taking that with you and carrying that mirror, right? And every time you feel like something is blocking you from seeing yourself, just like mindful self compassion the fuck out of that, right? This is the moment of suffering. I'm not alone. 

Sonia: And I need to love myself, love the fuck out of myself through it. Okay. And then hierophant is my favorite because that is, this is my soul archetype. You are your own guru. You are, you are your own, like, you don't need to listen to anybody else. Listen to yourself, listen to your divine knowing, listen to that pantheon of ancestors and divinities and deities and guardians and guides who are literally with you at all times, making sure, not making, helping you make decisions, but clearing the path so that you can listen to your deep knowing and move through it, right? 

Sonia: It's you're just getting started. Like this is the best. Like you're an elder. Like we're, I'm 47. I am like so excited. I'm like, I'm ready. Like this is my Doña era, right? Like just call me Doña Sonia. And I will tell you all the things. I know some shit. You know, some shit. Yes. 

Coven 5: Rachel, did that help? Yes, very much. 

Coven 5: Thank you. I really appreciate that. All of you. 

Amy: Thank you. Thank you. Water your roots and the leaves will take care of themselves, I think. Tanis, how are you doing? Oh, 

Coven 6: good. How are you? Lovely ladies. 

Amy: Oh, well. So 

Coven 6: happy to be here. 

Amy: And at this summer solstice time, I mean, it's still light out where I am. That's it. 

Amy: It's bonkers going to bed when it's still light out. It's such trip. Do you have a question for our Cartomancers? 

Coven 6: I do. I do. Um, so my daughter, um, she's, you know, in that preteen going on 11 era of her life, having issues with people, people are Twisting her words against her, you know, the friend stuff. I, I want to step back and not be Mama Belle, pull my earrings off, and choose violence, but, you know. 

Coven 6: Um, how's the best way that we're going to get through this? 

Amy: Well, I mean, For a struggling teenager, this is an interesting card to get. I pulled for you, Genesis P. Orridge. Now, um, the word that we've associated with Genesis is transgress. And, uh, transgression is like the thru was. Genesis passed on a couple of years ago. 

Amy: Um, the thrust of Jen's entire life was transgression. And I think, I mean, Jen wasn't comfortable in school. You know, a super, super, super smart person, but they didn't like the rules. They didn't like being beat up by what amounted to the British version of frat boys. Um, and they didn't give a fuck what you thought. 

Amy: Genesis did not give a fuck about what you thought. And because of that, Genesis invented a whole new, well, with Cozy Fanny Tooty, invented a whole new genre of music. So I would maybe suggest to your daughter that if we can, and I know it's hard, and Jen suffered, and all of us who do this will suffer, You have to put those other people's voices to the side and it hurts and it makes you angry. 

Amy: But if you have a vision and you are focused on that vision, then you can't allow those other voices who have no fucking vision, and so they're focused on you because you have a vision, to dissuade you from like your creative energy. The thing about imagination and creativity is that it is outside the box. 

Amy: And when you're in a place like high school, like it doesn't pay to be outside of that box, but when you get out of a place like high school and you enter like a world of freedom that is open to your creativity or find people whose vision is in line with yours, then you can actually change. music history in Jen's case, or, you know, I don't know what your daughter's into, but change whatever niche world that is that she's going into. 

Amy: So I say, Genesis says to remind your daughter, like, fuck what those boring ass people think about your amazingness. They're intimidated by you. They don't understand you because you're fucking rad and they can't handle it. Sorry, not sorry, period. Genesis Peorich. 

Sonia: So I want to, uh, I pulled Pixie, Pixie Coleman Smith, which, um, I mean, just if there is a way to be in community with your kid in some creative way. 

Sonia: Be that creative place, right? Be that, that like pillow, right? For her. Um, because you can't, we can't do any, we can't physically go in and change anybody else's thing, right? We can be the resting place, the care place. And then I also pulled two of cups and I'm going to read to you two of cups, my, my interpretation, because I think that it's, it, it. 

Sonia: Can offer you, um, a little, a little love. Um, the cups are the suit where we practice the art of following our intuition and the two is a mirror number. It offers us the opportunity to give the energy that we want to receive. Most often that means love for oneself, but it can also be for another being a practice, an idea, a value system, or really any opportunity in which connection can offer reflection and growth. 

Sonia: Usually this can be very hard and require trust on your end. Do it anyway. What is waiting and offering your cup is a beautiful reflection of yourself in another's cup and the love you will encounter in this exchange will be bountiful. My wife's daughter Fern at age seven and she's now 11, um, called this the glued together card. 

Sonia: Take some time to contemplate what you are glued to. That is a powerful meditation. Um, and then the spiral deeper for this. This is just a resource that I think may be supportive for both of you is a book by twin sisters, Amelia and Emily Nagowski. Um, they wrote this wonderful reflection of two of cups energy called burnout, the secret of unlocking the stress cycle. 

Sonia: And there's all these tips on how to manage And if I have any recollection of middle school, um, mean girl drama, that stress cycle, like you are in fight, flight or freeze. Right. And so if you can work with your child on creative ways to manage that stress, breathing techniques, just being there, releasing, shaking, you know, like a possum when it gets, when it's being attacked. 

Sonia: It goes and pretends to die, right? And then once it feels safe, it literally shakes. And I know she may think that it's crazy to shake at 11 years old, but you can give her that, like you shake. Shake it, literally shake the energy off of you so that you can keep moving and, and, and bring joy into your creativity and scream, right? 

Sonia: Like, like that, that sounding is also, so just giving your, giving her what you need. Feel that, that reception, right? That two of cups energy feels really like a powerful message, mama. 

Zoe: I love that Sonia, because I got the magician again in my roots and wings deck, and it's all about, you know, right. 

Zoe: Obviously both of you have everything that you need. And so to me, it's like transmuting this energy, that energy, which feels like is what both of you all are talking about, finding creative ways to transmute that energy. And then I got the four of cups. And so. Just again, tapping into that magician energy will bring about the celebration, et cetera. 

Zoe: And I specifically was drawn to the zombie deck because it's like, that's high school. That's middle school. That's that transformation time. That can be so frightening, but, um, yeah, so that's what I got with that. And then at the bottom of the deck, what you don't see coming, I got the devil in reverse. So, um, Sonia, I think you talked about release and independence and it's like one day, you know, y'all will look back and be like, whoa, we, we made it through. 

Zoe: So that's what I got. 

Coven 6: Thank you so much. Appreciate it. 

Coven 1: Hello. After hearing how Deb asked her question I was like, that's what I should say. What do I need to do. What do I need right now. But I have nothing I'm not writing a book. I think my question has to do with feeling really lost and unmoored, um, and like, I've had astrology readings where someone looked at my chart and said, well, you're just never going to have a normal relationship, but it doesn't define, like, what it is, or I've had Akashic readings where they're like, you just have to do something new. 

Coven 1: Without any explanation of what it is, and I just, if I'm always doing something that has no rules, it feels really ungrounding and unmoored and unsupported. Um, and so I'm just like, so like, what now? 

Amy: Okay, so normally like if I'm doing a spread, I do a spread, but if I'm just like looking for like a message, I just shuffle and whatever pops out is, you know, I'm not sure what's happening. 

Amy: Um, I, I'm, I have left the door open for all kinds of answers to the question, what is happening when you pull cards? Um, I believe that it is possible that there is some, you know, Universal spirit that is guiding the card to jump out of the deck at this time, but two popped out, um, Harriet Tubman, freedom. 

Amy: And again, like we were talking about with Holly, you know, um, people telling you that you should try something new and that all the possibilities and freedom. Freedom is there for you. It's like, okay, great. But like, what, what's the railroad? You know, I'm seeking freedom, but I have freedom. I have the freedom to choose what I need to figure out is what to choose. 

Amy: Um, so maybe that's where Faith Ringgold comes in. Um, the, um, I don't know if I said this, freedom is the word, um, that we've, we've related to Harriet Tubman, and the word that we've put with Faith Ringgold is shapeshift, which almost equally doesn't help you, you can change form, you know, and, and maybe, again, I don't know the, the details of your backstory, but what Faith Ringgold, and you know, R. 

Amy: I. P. Faith Ringgold actually died this year, and, um, we were in mourning because what a voice, what a powerful, powerful voice. There were many reasons that Faith Ringgold took on art in the way that she did. Um, one was that her parents told her, don't let nobody tell you what you can't do. Don't let nobody tell you what you can't do. 

Amy: And she was only allowed to study art education because she was a woman. And so she studied art to the extent that she was able, and then found that that was a little bit too Eurocentric for her. And so went, after her formal education, went and self educated on African art, did a series of, of, like, African inspired, masks. 

Amy: What she's most famous for, um, are these pieces that are like, uh, they're painted, but they're also quilted and embroidered. Like she took this sort of like elevated, she could paint like Picasso. She did this one painting and the name of it escapes me, but it's like so perfectly cubist. Um, and it's called, like, Picasso Studio, or something like that. 

Amy: And she basically, like, painted Picasso as this sort of empty figure. And at the same time showing, I can do this too. I can paint like Picasso, but I'm gonna value domesticity. I'm gonna value the quilting techniques that my grandmother taught me, and elevate them to that same level of what we consider Picasso to have done. 

Amy: Um, so what is Faith Ringgold telling you? I'm not sure, but she definitely is saying that you can take the, all the tools that you have, and even, even if you have like internalized capitalism, or internalized misogyny, or internalized homophobia, whatever it is, you can elevate those things that make you who you are. 

Amy: Shapeshift them out of You know, something for you to be ashamed of, or depressed about, um, and elevate them to be the focus of your creativity, or your life, your domesticity, your relationships. I don't know, freedom and shapeshifting. So again, the cards are like, you do whatever you want, you have the tools, you have the vision. 

Amy: And I also want to say that Harriet Tubman is often sort of cosmified. As the North Star, which is heavily, heavily, heavily associated with the North Star. So if you do need a bit of perspective, like you can really just look up at the sky, say this is the same North Star that Harriet fucking Tubman was looking at. 

Amy: Cool. 

Sonia: Okay. Um, I pulled stargazing. 

Coven 1: What is that way? 

Sonia: Um, it takes a lot of courage to reach for the stars to expand the South, but it is possible. And when I was reading about this, it's really about, uh, just like leaning into your imagination. So what do you want to, what are you going to do? You're going to use your imagination and you're going to imagine a. 

Sonia: Whatever the fuck you need to imagine, whatever comes to you, because that's literally the thing. Like that's the spell human being, like someone imagined. The world we're in this fucking dumpster fire somebody imagined that so we have the power to imagine, right, something else and in doing that we literally set the conditions for it. 

Sonia: I also pulled two of cups again, but with my other deck look at this like it's very, very intimate. Love the fuck out of yourself. So that's something else you can do. Get to it, get to it, loving the fuck out of yourself. And then Guaradevi, um, hugged trees after her, um, ancestor, um, Amrita died hugging trees in her country. 

Sonia: Right. And she actually, though, when she hugged the trees, She had her death, kind of her martyrdom, right, as a, as a history and they didn't kill her the way that they killed Amrita, who, Was trying to save a tree and they literally cut her in half, right? That, that was the history. So if you go and you read the, um, I'm Rita Devi is also in the missing whiskers deck and her story is in the 17th century or like a couple hundred years back, she was trying to save a tree. 

Sonia: They killed her, but because that happened. When I'm Rita Debbie went to save, um, 2500 trees in her hometown of northern India. She was able to collect and bring the people together to hug the trees to prevent this from happening. And. After this impasse, after they stood there and, and held on, um, the loggers left, and then the state went on to issue a 10 year ban on commercial deforestation in the area. 

Sonia: And so the final message here is embrace the world with all your might. So gaze at the stars, use your imagination, love the fuck out of yourself, and go and embrace the things in your world that light you up and make you feel fierce. That's what we need. We need 8 billion people going out and, and loving themselves and, and standing and imagining for like what their highest and best is. 

Amy: Yeah. Har Harriet Tubman famously said, reach for the stars to change the world. 

Zoe: Zoe, do you have anything to add? It's right along the same lines. It's right along the same lines. We got the Elder Tree, which is all about wisdom, which is all about tapping in to your own wisdom. This card also resonates to Pluto and Jupiter. 

Zoe: So maybe tomorrow, Jupiter Day. Again, I'm always want to talk about some kind of ritual, maybe around clarity or something like that. And then we got Donna Haraway, which says manifest. So again, in this end, the last line I like here, it says, this card demands you write your own manifesto and see what you can manifest. 

Coven 1: Okay. Thank you. You're 

Amy: welcome. 

Coven 1: Did 

Amy: that help Marissa? 

Coven 1: It better. I wrote it all down. . 

Amy: Your, your results may vary, um, , so definitely, definitely not. Let us know. We've got time for a couple more. Zoe. Sonia, do you have time for a couple more? Yes. Great. We'll do a couple more hope. 

Coven 7: Hello everyone. 

Amy: Hi. Hope 

Coven 7: I miss Res. 

Coven 7: I miss Risa, so just had to say that. Just I'm sending out my love. Um. I need to know what is holding me back from releasing the crap of the past. I just, every time I try, it just keeps bubbling back and I don't know how to just Be done so I can, you know, I need to live and not always have this stuff coming back. 

Amy: That's a great question. I feel like a lot of us ask similar questions in our lives. Let's see who's going to pop out for you here. Wow. Very interesting. Um, the card that popped out. from the Missing Witches deck of oracles is Tituba. Um, the word that we associate with Tituba in this deck of cards is testify. 

Amy: Um, if you don't know, Tituba was that sort of very famous quote unquote black witch of Salem, was one of the first women to be persecuted under the Salem trials. Um, and so I'm wondering how much Of this weight that you're carrying, Hope, you've spoken out loud. Have you just tried to carry it? And hold it and thought maybe that it would go away. 

Amy: Or are you, are you testifying? Um, I, I would also love for you to read I, Tutuba just as a, just as a, an aside by Maryse Conde, because Maryse Conde claims that she channeled the spirit of Tutuba in the writing of the book. And there's so much great stuff in there that I personally like attribute to Tutuba. 

Amy: Even though it's Maurice Conde writing in the voice of Chichiba. But, um, she, she asked like, do you, do you even know what a witch is? You know, when she was accused of witchcraft, she said, Do you even know what a witch is? I'm wondering if you even know what letting go would look like. I'm wondering if you even know what that witchcraft is. 

Amy: I think that Tituba is telling you, or this card. Let's see what the card actually says. This is interesting. This card requires you to consider which testimonies shaping your life were made under duress. and how you can channel the truth. So what stories that you've been told about yourself were made because of somebody else's shit and somebody else's reasons that just filtered down on you because of, you know, the, the politics of family, the politics of trauma. 

Amy: Um, so I would testify against it if I were to follow the advice of this card, I, I would attempt to let some of it go and whether that's talk therapy. Or just not fucking swallowing it when there's something right on your tongue that wants to come out and you have the option of swallowing it or spitting it out. 

Amy: I think you need to spit. I think you need to spit a bit more and fucking testify on your own behalf and in your own defense. I think that's what Tituba wants you to know. 

Zoe: Yeah, so I have a very close relationship with Tituba. From my past, my production company is actually called Sitchipa Productions. So anytime she comes up, I'm like. 

Zoe: Hey girl. So I got, don't let your past hold you back. 

Amy: Well if it was just that easy, Zoe, I hope you would have done 

Intro: that 

Zoe: already. Stop it. Right. But that's what we got. We got, don't let, don't, don't let your past hold you back. That's what fell out. And then we got the five of pentacles, which literally is about feeling left out in the cold, feeling forgotten, feeling abandoned. 

Zoe: And so I feel like that's what. You know, the South Node, they like to talk about the South Node as a coping mechanism. And we all know when we experience trauma, we fall back into the thing that's comfortable. We fall back into that South Node. And so perhaps looking at your astrology and seeing where your North Node is, and that North Star energy again, maybe stepping towards that. 

Zoe: But we also have Aglaonese, Aglaonese, Aglaonese. How does that pronounce Amy, but it says study here. So this is taking me back to what Amy's talking about. And the last thing it says here is. I'll go on appears, I think it's I'll get me. Oh, Che, thank you. Che appears to call you back to your studies and back to the moon. 

Zoe: And so again, I think that's exactly what Amy is saying, right? When we get that urge to fall back into this five of Pentacles energy study, where it came from, who put that idea into you and testify against it is what I would say. Fascinating. Okay. Thank you so much. 

Sonia: Okay. Uh, so I, I was just pulling and four, four of them jumped out and went under my table. 

Sonia: Like I had to stand up and go get them. And I don't know, I don't know. So I'm just going to tell you about them and then I'm gonna let you put, put the pieces together. So the first one that jumped out was lady Frida Harris. Um, she wrote, she actually was the illustrator of the Thoth deck. Um, And what it, I'm just going to read you the bottom section. 

Sonia: She triangulated between world views. This card invites you to change your perspective, study something brand new. So that goes back. I mean, you can't even make this shit up. Okay. Um, alter your trajectory or velocity notice where lines converge. I don't know. Maybe, maybe the thought do you have if you don't have the thought deck, you may want to go check it out. 

Sonia: You don't have to buy it. You can just go to one of those stores where they have the samples and just look at them. I mean, I just like doing that. Like, because I don't. Okay. Um, the next thing, the next person that jumped out was 10 Heenan. Um, hers was about it's called remember, and she apparently was a, um, Tamazight warrior queen who saved her people from starvation by finding the grain stored in anthills. 

Sonia: And people. thought that she wasn't real. The colonizers thought that she was a fake person that they had just made up, like a legend that her people made up, until they found her body buried in a tomb between these two dry riverbed valleys. And she taught her people poetry and, um, this, this alphabet, this ancient, uh, Language alphabet and her tomb was 1500 years old. 

Sonia: Um, and so her, this card ties you to mothers beyond memory. Um, the next one that jumped out is the Milise, um, which were these group of women who kept the bees and danced for the bees in, um, the Roman empire, or maybe they were, yeah, they were Minoan. Anyway, they were ancient. They were the ancient. 

Sonia: European beekeeping women. Um, this card invites you into a sacred dancing, timeless community of reverence for the more than human world. And I will end with my favorite and my personal deity, uh, lady, ancestor, Hildegard von Benin. This one feels the most connected to what, where you are right now, because Hildegard was a nun in the 12th century who lived with chronic illness. 

Sonia: And so she had anxiety every single day. Uh, uh, uh, uh, anxiety every go study her. Oh my God. Go read about her. Go. Oh my God. Just go like be in her. Go listen, go, go and just type in Hildegard von Benin on Spotify and listen to the chance that she created. Okay. I'm going to read her anxious every single day of her life. 

Sonia: She took her constant screaming pain and wrote it like the wind to new vision. Abbas composer, writer, mystic, and herbalist. She founded two monasteries and wrote theological and scientific texts that synthesized worlds of available knowledge and were generations ahead of her time. She gave us songs and visions of what she called the living light, Or in other contexts, the green Ness. 

Sonia: She soothed her chronic pain with beauty and community. She gathered women and wrote music books and recipes for happiness, cookies, and hoppy beer. She was a brewer. This card invites you to not just survive, but to flourish. Go, go flourish. 

Amy: I think you've got a lot to chew on there, Hope. Holy fuck. Thank you. 

Coven 7: Yeah, you're welcome. That's a fucking B to all of you. 

Amy: Liz, quick question. We'll try to wrap it up and respect our guest's time. So, yeah. 

Coven 8: So, this is some real life stuff. Uh, I, my estranged father passed away, uh, very recently. And, um, the redneck relatives are coming out of the woodwork. Um, 

Amy: I 

Coven 8: will be the eldest child who happens to be the one handling all of the things. 

Coven 8: What guidance can I receive? I know protection. I know we got to do a lot of protection work, but, um, any other guidance would be so appreciated. Maria 

Amy: Gimbutas 

Amy: had a theory. She was an anthropologist, an archeologist. Um, Um, um, mythioanthropologist, um, she came up with this theory that the symbols that they found in archaeological excavations were a language. And she was mocked. And all of her, of course, like, you know, male contemporaries were like, that's not possible. 

Amy: Like what you're proposing is impossible. And then, of course, as science caught up to Maria Gimbutas, um, they were able to prove and you'll forgive me, I'm forgetting the data, the data analysis, you know, in this exact moment, but she was vindicated. She was right. And she was right all along. So I would keep that when you are dealing with these, what was the terminology you use? 

Amy: Rednecks coming out of the woodwork? Um, you are correct. Come and go and speak to them from a place of knowing that you are correct. Maria Gimbutas knew she was right, and she was like, someday, they're gonna believe me. Someday, they're gonna figure it out. So that's fine. If they're pushing back on you, just say to yourself, like, someday they'll figure it out, you know. 

Amy: Their appreciation of my correctness may take some time, and that's fine. Right? We can be patient with other people's appreciation of our correctness, knowing full fucking well that we are in charge, and we know what the fuck we're doing, and we are correct. I think that's what Maria Gimbutas wants you to know. 

Coven 8: I love that. 

Coven 8: Thank 

Coven 3: you. 

Sonia: Okay. I, I, I pulled this, it, it jumped out at me, the farmer's market, and it, I was like, what, what does the farmer's market have to do with this? And when I, when I went to read it, it was like something about seasonal eating. And I was like, that's not, but But this is, this is the message. There's a prompt that goes with this one, and this is it. 

Sonia: Check in with spirit prompt. Your journaling prompt is one that I often, this journaling prompt is one that I often go back to when I need to check in with my spirit and quiet the noise in my mind. Or the noise from the outside. Um, so I can allow spirit to lead me for this exercise. You'll need some paper and a pen or pencil prepare by finding a quiet space and calming your mind. 

Sonia: Take a few deep breaths. And when you are ready, ask your question. And allow yourself to write out all the thoughts that come to mind, even the unrelated ones. Once you have done that, go to a different page, ask again, and this time add Only my spirit may guide me without forcing thoughts and allow yourself to record what naturally wants to be shared. 

Sonia: So anytime we can do any kind of practice where we listen to ourselves, we like tap into that divine intuition. We always have the answer. It's just like that magician card that comes up. We always have the answer to this. We know it, we know it deep in, um, Turn down that, that brain that's like a hard rock station blaring so that you can listen to like Delilah's love songs like deep in and the answers will be there exactly what, what needs to be said or what. 

Sonia: Needs to be silent and just 

Zoe: absolutely. And so I dipped into my chakra deck and I got the crown chakra. I got creation and impartiality. So focusing on exactly what Sonia said, your creativity and all of that. And, and staying as impartial as you can. And so maybe it's even some crown chakra work. And then I got the third eye, which is all about faith. 

Zoe: So. Oh my god! 

Coven 8: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. This was incredible, y'all. Thank you. 

Amy: Yes. Yeah, this is great. This is so good. Zoe and Sonia are amazing readers, and I like to think that, you know, Risa and I put this deck together ourselves. Like, I did the drawings, you know, the, the people that are featured are mostly people that we've written about for the podcast. 

Amy: Like, we really have deep connections to these people. I, I would like to believe that, you know, um, they are, they are, their spirits are going along with these goals. Kalika, we're gonna go super fast for you. And again, If there's somebody who didn't get a chance, like, let's start a thread in the, a card pulling thread in the circle space. 

Amy: And, um, for those of you who don't have the Missing Witches deck of oracles yet, um, July 9th, um, I will pull a card for you and put it in the chat like tomorrow. So Kalika, let's wrap it up. What do you, what question do you have for us? 

Coven 9: So it's a money question. I've got the three biggest. like scariest goals that I'm ever going to be attempting to go towards in my life. 

Coven 9: And all of them are very expensive. And I've been trying to figure out the best way for me to go about attaining funds for these things. 

Amy: And we're shuffling. 

Coven 9: I'm going to go 

Zoe: because it just popped right out. Magine Gonzalez Whipler and it says possibility. 

Amy: Yeah. So that that's the card that Holly got. How infinite your possibilities are to get this money. 

Amy: 100%. 

Zoe: This card commands you to don't miss out on the divine alchemy of thought and feeling study and instinct methodology and dreams. Open doors to possibility. So the alchemy of your thoughts, so just paying attention to your thoughts and your beliefs and all of that. And I'm sure that Amy and Sonia are going to just. 

Intro: I'm 

Zoe: dancing for the people that are listening. I'm making a wave. 

Amy: Um, I pulled Maya Deron, who, um, was an experimental filmmaker. Who, uh, was very influential. When I was, for me, when I was, like, making music videos for my friends bands and stuff like that. Um, she also studied voodoo in Haiti as, as an academic and as a choreographer. 

Amy: How does that help you? I'm not sure. But the word that's attached to Maya Darin is experiment. Where can you be an initiate at this time? The soul of the universe is waiting to meet you. So I think that in order to get whatever funds that you need to get, you're gonna have to go outside of the universe. 

Amy: the box outside of normal channels, explore possibilities that maybe you hadn't thought of. Um, you know, the only things that we can think of are things that already exist in our own mind, or in our own imagination. And sometimes we have to look outside of ourselves to see the other, other possibilities exist. 

Amy: It's just that they're not in our head. So we didn't know, we didn't think, we didn't imagine. And as soon as somebody says it to you, you're like, It was, it was there all along. It was so obvious. So again, experiment is the word, and think of a highly artistic filmmaker who also, you know, um, studied ritual dance through a Haitian lens, um, and check out maybe some of her artwork and see if it sparks something in you. 

Amy: Her, her films are a Manifique, black and white, kind of unsettling. But yeah, I think you're going to have to experiment, you're going to have to get unsettled. 

Coven 9: Story of my life and do 

Coven 4: magic. 

Sonia: So I pulled the king of swords, um, who is the, basically as the king, they're always leaders of the terror tarot. Um, and the, the bear comes forth, um, They're when they come forth, they're calling you to step into the light. You are ready to lead the cause. Um, it stands the sword stand for mastering brain chemistry and mental processes. 

Sonia: Um, they're about integrating intellectual knowledge with an inner knowing. which calms the brain and lends one to embodied thought, um, connective divine understanding. So leaning into that like deep intuitive knowing that your brain is an outer authority, know and but don't let your brain Try to make decisions for you, because then you're just going to be ping pong matching, right? 

Sonia: So you have to find where it feels right. Right. And, and, and then Leonora Carrington came, came up. Right. Um, and there's this beautiful book that I recommend go, go read it. It's called alchemy of a blackbird. And it is the story of Leonora Carrington and, um, Oh, who was the other they were best friends. 

Sonia: Anyway, it takes place. Yes, yes. Um, and, and, um, It, it, it takes you through because she was a writer and she was, um, had a nervous breakdown right around World War II and was put in this mental institution and it was very traumatic. So she came from wealth, like she was a wealthy, like nobility kind of deal, like a lady, right? 

Sonia: In like British society who walked away from all of it. And found her way. So there's a message there. Right. And I think it goes back to that getting creative about how it's going to come. That abundance is going to come. It's just not necessarily going to look the way that we want it to look in a capitalist environment. 

Sonia: Right. But it's, yeah, Remediosvaro. Okay. 

Amy: Yay. I'm so close. I think I said, like, Vemediosvaro. I got, I did a spoonerism. Thank you. Thank you, Rachel. Remediosvaro. 

Amy: So, with that, thank you so much, Zoe. Thank you so much for I almost said flowers. 

Sonia: My nickname, Zoe's last name, my nickname. 

Amy: So how can, for people who are listening, how can they support you? Find 

Sonia: you? I I'm, I am on Instagram. That's probably the easiest way to find me. It's Sonia. Fernandez LeBlanc. And then I have a link tree on Instagram that takes you to my sub stack where I write and it takes you to my book that just came out. 

Sonia: If you wanted to order it, um, I'm really 

Amy: Dream. Yeah. You're not a publicist, obviously. Right. No, I'm not a publicist. What's the title 

Sonia: of the book, please? Oh, it's Dreaming with Bees, Sacred Medicine from Beyond the Veil of Grief. And the lead author is Daisha Alred Bond, but it's a collaborative book. And so there were 24 of us. 

Sonia: And so my chat, my chapter is in there and it's magical realism. It's the story of my healing, my relationship with my father, um, who I am not. Together with we are complete, but it's this really beautiful story. Um, so yeah, so Instagram, Instagram is the best way. 

Amy: And this will, of course, be linked in the show notes. 

Amy: Zoe Flowers! 

Zoe: Yep, you can find me on Instagram as well. Um, I am Zoe Flowers, only for the same reasons that Sonia, um, said there's a link tree there to find everything else. And where I'm most active right now is actually my YouTube channel, which is The Magic Hours. And so it's T H E M A G I C K Z. So not hours with an S, hours with a Z. 

Zoe: That's where I do all my readings and all of that. And so that's where I'm really most active. And 

Amy: sometimes. And what about readings for hire? If someone who's listening really felt super connected to your voice and the way that you read, would they be able to get a reading from either of you? 

Zoe: Yeah, absolutely. 

Zoe: I am a full-time reader, so you can book through my website, or again, if you go to my link tree, I have a Calendly there and you can book any kind of session you want. 

Sonia: Yeah. And my email is, is on my, is, is there too. So you could reach out to me like mine is more just like reach out to me. I paid, I tried to pay for Calendly and then I didn't use it. 

Sonia: And then I was like, why am I spending 15 a month on that? Just send me an email and Instagram and we'll figure out a time. 

Amy: Yes, and be sure to specifically request that Zoe and Sonia pull a card from the Missing Witches deck of oracles when they do a reading for you. Um, thank you again so much. Thank you, Coven, for bringing your questions, your vulnerability. 

Amy: Thank you, Zoe. Thank you, Sonia, for teaching us about cartomancy and the joy and exuberance and excitement that you both bring to this tool. Um, I mean, I'll see you both soon. Happy Letha, Merry Solstice, Longest day of the year, thank you so much, and blessed fucking be. 

Zoe: Blessed fucking be. Blessed fucking be. 

Zoe: Blessed fucking be. Oh, so fun. You must 

Intro: be a witch.

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