Missing Witches Samhain Special 2019 – on Life and Death

https://www.llewellyn.com/product.php?ean=9780738742168 https://risadickens.bandcamp.com/track/meditation

Amy Torok
Nov 2, 2019
31 min read
Sabbat SpecialsSamhainAncestorsDeathworkTranscripts

In this early episode of the Missing Witches Podcast, Amy and Risa open up for the first time about the birth of Risa's daughter and the death of Amy's father.


Samhain Life + Death

You aren't being a proper woman, therefore you must be a witch. Be a witch! Be a witch! Be a witch! Be a witch! Be a witch! You must be a witch. 

[00:00:08] Risa: I was telling Marc that I had literally described. the kind of writing I wanted to be doing years ago when I wasn't really writing at all. And I was like, you know, I would like to be researching and I would like it to be feminist.

And it would be so cool if I could write about metaphysical things, but like nobody, there's no, I don't even know what that would look like. And I don't want to write long form articles for magazines or maybe I do, but that seems really stressful and I like performing and I don't want to self publish, but I would like to have my own like, and I, when I started doing, um, Magic stuff with that first class I was in.

I wrote that I wanted to find my soulmate editor and publisher. And then like halfway through the first season with you, I was like, Oh, it's Amy. Because we were just like, everything is so easy when we edit together. And I'm like, Oh, it's like, that's That's how that manifested at the time. You know, 

[00:01:02] Amy: yeah.

Yeah. I definitely believe that there are lots of different kinds of soulmates. And, uh, this is, this is one of them because it's all like, we've even talked about this in interviews with other people where it just like everything seemed correct, you know, every step it was like, yep, this. Seems correct.

Yeah. Yeah. I was telling 

[00:01:21] Risa: Karen about what it's like working with you and I was like, it's just one of those people where you're like, why don't we do this thing? Yeah, let's do that thing. It's like the most low key collaboration ever. Anytime I'm like generating drama, I'm like just run it by her because they're The drama is all in your head right now.


[00:01:38] Amy: yeah. Oh, yeah. The calls are always coming from inside. And I think both being like, maybe like fundamentally low drama people helps us with that. Yeah. 

[00:01:50] Risa: I mean, I think we can also both be very high drama, but we don't bring it into our working relationships. I don't know if you consider yourself, I consider myself sometimes high drama At least like 

[00:02:02] Amy: I I get in my feelings sometimes.

I get 

[00:02:05] Risa: in my feelings sometimes. That's a good way 

[00:02:09] Amy: to say it. I'm theatrical. I don't know if I would call it drama to call out the bullshit you're presenting. I'm making big gestures 

[00:02:16] Risa: right now. As always. 

[00:02:21] Amy: Yeah, but I mean, some people are seeking it out. And that, uh, you will always find it if you're 

[00:02:26] Risa: looking for it.

Yes, I am definitely a, like, I am I think I'm notorious among some of my friends for like eliminating relationships that are drama based. Yes. I don't. And maybe, yeah, I just don't keep people around that are in that cycle of like everything is uh, uh, uh, 

[00:02:43] Amy: uh. Yeah, I'm getting to that place for sure. Yeah. I was always like a love battery and as long as you give me a charge every now and again, like I'll, I'll keep running.

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. But, uh, I'm, I'm learning now to reserve more space for myself. Especially like, I guess maybe we'll... Here's the podcast. Yeah. Um, uh, when my father died, because as you, Risa, and now you, Lizard. Oh, wait, that was all 

[00:03:10] Risa: part of the podcast. Oh, yeah. Totally makes sense. So I'm going in there, the podcast started, and it totally makes 

[00:03:14] Amy: sense.

Psych. It's always been the podcast. Always already. Always already podcasting. Yeah, super existential about it. But yeah, just this, like, I had cared for him for like almost a decade. And then once that was gone, it was like this amazing weight of like. Anxiety and responsibility had just been like lifted off me.

So I I've called it like the summer of freedom the summer of amy. I said no to everything Or yes, if I wanted to but I felt no obligation to anyone other than You know that which also gives me Um, energy, but, um, let's like really dive into this podcast now, because since we started this Missing Witches project, happy Samhain everybody.

Since we started this, uh, Missing Witches project, uh, I lost a parent and Risa became a parent. Yeah. And these are things that definitely change you. in very different and somehow similar ways. Somehow we came up a lot this season, this idea of death and life after death and contending with the relationship between death and regeneration and life and death and regeneration.

So can you launch into some Sawin feelings about life and death and everything in between? You don't have to 

[00:04:41] Risa: ask me to it. Here's my feelings about life and death. No, um, yeah, I guess I, I, I feel like I faced death this year more than I ever have in my life. Um, we're like, yeah, it's a, it's a day past a year anniversary of my labor and may making it into the world.

And that was not an easy labor. I don't know if there are easy labors, but there are easier ones than mine. And I felt like I was gonna die. And I think that's part of labor. Like, I think it's an important part of labor. It's an important part of, like, Life is like the, and the magic of how we'd sort of channel what's real about being alive in the world is facing death.

And so that is like a particular piece of a kind of magical experience of being a certain bodied person that you can have access to is you will face your death and you will face the death like there's, you know, you will face the death of the thing you now love the most in the world, you know? And I had some pretty.

Now looking back retrospectively, I had some pretty severe postpartum anxiety in the months afterwards. Um, she was okay and I was okay, but it was like, you know, 36 hours and, and I did take the, um, the Pitocin to make the contractions come stronger because I wasn't, um, I wasn't getting there to where I needed to be.

So then I was in this sort of chemically induced haze of pain and contractions and it still wasn't happening. And I just lost hours, like I was just like vomiting and riding pain and just, I feel like I disappeared for a while there. And when she, you know, she, her heart was struggling and when she came out, she had the cord around her neck and she had inhaled her own, um, like baby feces.

And so she had to be rushed off and cleaned and she was fine. She actually came back quicker than they thought she would and I was fine. But I dealt with that moment of like her disappearing, you know, her like finally getting there, them cutting me open and get her there. And, and then the running away with her and then just like, just shaking and crying and needing to tell the story, like to my mom crying and holding her hand, you know, and Um, and then she got really sick many times this year and we discovered she has like a life threatening allergy and so we watched her go into shock and almost die and I feel numb by that.

Um, I did some ritual stuff around it because it just helped to do anything. Um. And those are sort of my scattered thoughts on that's, that's where I'm at. And, and, and that those were the things I was walking through this year. And so when you were like, what if we do an episode about death? I was like, yeah, let's talk about death.

[00:07:53] Amy: And being the portal to dot, dot, dot question mark 

[00:07:58] Risa: to the other side. 

[00:08:00] Amy: Yeah. 

[00:08:02] Risa: Yeah, I looked at what Theosophists think about death when I was working on the Blavatsky episode. Um, and I won't put it in their terms because I won't do it correctly, but I love this idea that they have. And it, I mean, it is, it's cobbled together from Buddhism and Hinduism.

They believe that after you die, um, until your physical, the last atom of your physical body has kind of gone back into the universe, there is a part of you that kind of is just sort of like a shell or a shape of energy that is kind of waiting. And then that is released once the physical part is released.

And then, um, there's a period. Where you rest and it could be as long as you need. And then there's a period where you're surrounded by all the people and animals and beings and places you've ever loved, whether they're dead or not, and it's not really them. It's like them for you, and you have that for as long as you need it.

And it could be a thousand years like I'm just being with everyone you need like everything you need. Everything you love is just there for you for a while until that energy dissipates also. And then you begin the cycle of rebirth. And for me, that's like perfect. I'll take that. You know? 

[00:09:35] Amy: Yeah. As long as you need surrounded by love and then what reincarnation.

[00:09:43] Risa: I think so, sure. You know, like I reincarnation in the sense that like my, my body's going to disintegrate. I'm going to go back into the water table and it's going to get eat, hopefully, you know, eaten by worms and like, I, that, you know, that's become 

[00:09:58] Amy: soil. Yeah. 

[00:09:59] Risa: I was so excited. Stick me in a flower. I want to do that for a while.

[00:10:02] Amy: Sounds nice.

I want to do a, a Samhain reading while we're on the subject of death. 

[00:10:12] Risa: Thank you. 

[00:10:14] Amy: Um, it's from, I love this series. This is like the Wheel of the Year series by Llewellyn. Um, they're called the Sabbath Essentials. I don't have the full set yet, but I'm collecting them one Sabbath at a time. And, uh, yeah, so this is from that.

Samhain is the most sacred and often the most celebrated of the Sabbath. In its sanctity comes a part that's difficult to celebrate. Remembrance. What we remember, we feel. When we feel, we often grieve. Sometimes, it's grief for someone dead. Other times, it's grief for what once was. For what never was. And for our failures.

These are all natural parts of the season. Season. Season. That hyphen really...

That hyphen really took me somewhere. These are all natural parts of the season. I can't do it now. These are all natural parts of the season, just as much as the joy and mystique. We've talked about, we've talked about this many times, about this, like, um, leaving space open, um, we sort of have been told a lot to chin up and buck up and don't cry.

You know, that's, it's, when someone starts crying, the first thing out of whoever is around them is almost always don't cry. Don't cry. Yeah. And, uh, and this is. Um, by our practice and this turn of the wheel of the year, this is when the veil is at its thinnest and we can access these energies that we don't necessarily always have access to.

And I think your interview with Elizabeth, she talked about this, the process of grieving her mother, I believe, and sort of access that energy and use it as a tool for her own healing. Yeah, I have lots of plans like that for myself. Do you Jimmy? Uh, Jimmy's birthday is coming up soon. Aw. I have a million little rituals planned between, uh, his birthday and

Um, I kept his track suit and his hat and his cane, and I told my partner that I was going to put them on for, for Halloween, and his direct quote was. You've lost the plot, but you listeners, you Risa, you friends, you know that, uh, I. I have never had a honed instinct on the plot. The plot has always been a little off the map for me.

So, I'll let everybody know how it goes. See what I can 

[00:13:16] Risa: conjure. Well, you're a map maker. I mean, we don't have a plot. We're just, except for the little garden plot, maybe. But, we're just map makers in our own underworld. As the Oracle of Los Angeles said, you know. I think that's a great idea. Throw on the clothes of the person and spend some time with them at this time of year, even if it's a piece of jewelry or putting together your altar, you know, and just spend some time with it.

And like, I always think it's a good practice. Like when you're in a safe space to do the opposite of that, that don't cry and, and be like, what, what is, what level is this emotion at for me right now? On a scale of one to 10, am I, am I at a 2:00 AM I, my, my throat is choking. I, I feel anxious, I feel nervous about this.

How can I turn it up? I'm in a safe space. Could I turn it up to a five? What, what would that mean? Like if I. What, what is the level of, what would I have to be saying about myself or fearing or, or, or poking? What's the wound I have to poke to turn it up to a five? And what's the wound I have to poke to turn it up to an eight?

Like, and if I let myself sob, can I turn it all the way up to an 11 and like, you know, don't do that on the bus if you can avoid it, but if you're in your home and like. You can scream or yell into a pillow or like weep it out, try to turn it all the way up because it's a big fucking wave that's stuck in you.

It's stuck in your throat and it can burn through you and release some things. My cousin, whose mother just died, who's staying with me now, my beautiful aunt just died. She was lying in bed the other day and she's getting hot flashes. She's older and she's frustrated by them. They're annoying. She's angry.

And then she told me she had this thought that maybe the hot flashes are burning through. All of her resistance to things, all of her desire for approval, all of her, you know, that, that a hot flash is a transition into like Crone, you know, where we, we drop all that shit. It's like the Marjorie Cameron as the grandmother, you know, like we've burned through it all 

[00:15:32] Amy: and we're dancing at the Banshees ball.

Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:15:39] Risa: I mean, I want that for all of us. I don't know how you. I don't know how you, you must be feeling after 10 years of, it was so, it was so constant the labor of love that you were doing, of care for your dad. I mean, I don't know if our listeners really know anything about 

[00:15:57] Amy: that. No, not too much, but just that he existed, I think, that he exists.

Yeah. Yeah. But I, I mean, I'm like. I'm, I'm okay with grieving, you know, so when I randomly burst into tears, um, uh, I'm fine with it. And because sometimes it's like tears of gratitude, like I get overwhelmed that I got to, you know, spend that time with him, you know, again, for our listeners who aren't, you know, long time friends of mine, um, my, uh, my folks split up when I was like six.

So, you know, I, I didn't know him super well, really, and I got to know him and I got to forgive him, you know, and, uh, and not everybody has that. Not everybody gets the chance to work through their parent stuff. Um, I think that's why, or maybe partly why ancestor work is, is so important to people. It's like, we wouldn't be here otherwise.

No shred of us would exist if not for these however many thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of years that went into the creation of our DNA. And then you have this very flawed person who is responsible for Creating you on a DNA level and then in an environmental level and they're bound to make mistakes.

And I release you, Risa, from all the 50 years of mistakes that you are going to make with May right now. We forgive you. And I think, yeah, we think of ancestor work as being a lot of gratitude and praise, which it is and it should be, but I think there's also room in there and in your Samhain tradition for forgiveness and to take a look at what your ancestors did right and what they did wrong and And forgive them.

Um, I'm not telling anyone to forgive any parent who was beyond forgiveness. Um, except, um, knowing that it had nothing to do with you. And forgiving yourself for even having the thought that it might have had anything to do with you. So we'll take that forgiveness. And, and the bit from Llewellyn that, you know, Sometimes when we're grieving, it's not for people who are dead.

Sometimes it's for opportunities that we missed. Or friends that for one reason or another we had to... Um, and so I think this, like, as we're going into the dark half of the year, which is what saw in marks, it's, it's the end of harvest and, and how we start this progression into darkness, that it's good to take this moment now, do it now before it gets literally too dark for us to even be able to, if you can release yourself from anything.

Anything at all, um, comes saw wind and that's something you don't, that's something you don't have to carry into next year with you and into the darkest, darkest time of the year if you live in this, uh, hemisphere where it gets so dark. 

[00:19:24] Risa: So dark. The darkness is coming. Yeah. The thing I was thinking about with my cousin when her, or I was thinking about for myself when my aunt died and we were talking about yesterday was, you know, Um, you're almost inevitably going to have the feeling like if you loved the person and they died, that you wish you had spent more time, that you wish you had said something like almost no matter how much time you did spend, there will be one more thing that you're like, Oh, I wish I had told them this.

I wish I had known to, to take them there to show them this one beautiful thing, you know? I, I had a meditation or like, uh, It's a sort of a dream about my aunt where I went through that moment of like, I should have gone and spent more time with her. She invited me to come to her house, sit in her hot tub and have a beer with her and like, you know, when she lived in that house before they lost it, like I should have spent time with her there.

She loved that house. Um, but one thing I kind of believe in is that, you know, the timelines aren't fixed And in my meditation about her, I took pieces from the times we did have together, like really beautiful times when she came and sat next to me and held my hand at a reunion and like whispered that she loved me or like took to show me her garden.

And I took all of those moments and I put them in her hot tub, on her porch, on her house. And I visited her and we had a beer and like, that's an act of imagination and an act of creation and an act of magic for when the veil is thin that like, you, you can have that moment with this, the energy version of that person for you.

And if that's healing, I think you should. 

[00:21:27] Amy: Yeah, if you can't, you know, access this person on a physical level, you can, like Faith Ringgold, you can make a piece of art about it and work through your feelings with a piece of art or sit down like Risa's saying and imagine and therefore do in a manner of speaking the thing that you didn't get to do.

Yeah, because you know, the world of the mind is just as real as the 

[00:21:52] Risa: rest of it, right? Make a container and put that moment in that container and in an In a real way that is real, 

[00:22:00] Amy: you 

[00:22:05] Risa: know? 

[00:22:07] Amy: I do. I don't know if our listeners do, but I know exactly what you do. 

[00:22:13] Risa: I mean, I remember when you decided to bring your dad to come live with you and I remember talking about it with you and it was a momentous decision and you can cut this out if you don't want it in there.

But I remember you describing like, you know, He was sick and alone, like, nobody was taking care of him, he was starving, his teeth were rotten, he didn't know how to cook because he'd never done it, you know, and like, you're like, this isn't my responsibility, but It's nobody's responsibility and it's everybody's responsibility and it's going to be, I'm going to do it.

And I might not even be doing it for him. I might be doing it for me so that I can look back and know that we had this time together, that I didn't abandon a frail old man. And, and it was like very beautiful. I've always remembered you being like, I'm going to do this. 

[00:23:08] Amy: Yeah, I, I mean, I guess. I don't know.

It's, it's somewhere half, halfway between like, I didn't feel like I had a choice and, um, I never questioned not doing it. I don't know. Like you say, like you see someone who needs your help and, And again, I mean, now that he's gone, I've released that.

I now have this superpower where I can see someone that needs help and not necessarily stop my life to help them, which I'm so grateful for. And again, thank you so much to my father for like, really making sure that I learned that lesson that it's, you can't help everyone. You can always help yourself.

Um, obviously we're big into altruism, you know, community work, all of that stuff, but I keep going back to the, you know, make sure your oxygen mask is in place before attempting to assist others. And I think I, I definitely got to a point where I, I wasn't, I wasn't doing that. Um, in retrospect, I see now that, yeah, I wasn't doing that.

And it was almost like. Because I was in this constant state of caregiving that I, I, I saw it everywhere. And so I would even put more and more and more care and more care and more care. And then when the necessity of care stopped for me, again, it was, it's like a release. Um, and you know, he was, he was, It's not like, oh, you know, my father died in the prime of his youth when he was playing baseball and he, you know, he wasn't, I was, I was sponge bathing him by the end.

And um, my doctor called, our doctor called and she, the first thing she said to me was, you know, it's okay to be relieved. And I knew that, but it was still really nice to hear a medical professional say it. So if, um, all y'all, if you're in some kind of weird morning yourself, like it's okay to be relieved.

Um, if someone is, again, not necessarily a death, but if someone is out of your, if your life, it's okay to be relieved. Let's, let's be okay. Let's be ok. Letting things go and being ok with that and not thinking that it's like a, a reflection on ourselves, whether or not we can, you know, stack up the numbers on the people that we allow into our lives.


[00:25:48] Risa: I mean we know people who like have had to cut parents out of their lives because they're deeply abusive. And who will like, I hope we'll stop living the endless cycle of pain and guilt and doubt around that, but maybe 

[00:26:04] Amy: won't. Yeah. No judgment if you can't or haven't, but yeah, if you can be the one to break the chain, we would be forever grateful and that would ripple into all eternity.

[00:26:15] Risa: Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to carry that. No. Yeah. Yeah. And if you, I don't know, you know, if you are. Paralyzed by the terror of caring for a life, which I have been 

[00:26:33] Amy: this year. Whether it's an ancestor or a descendant. 

[00:26:36] Risa: Yeah. I don't know, write and tell me how to fix it. I don't know if I have advice for that one.

I'm still paralyzed by that terror, you know, like you, I have these moments of like, oh, the weight lifted, and I feel she's okay, and she's healthy, and she's so funny, and she's so great. But then, you know, she sneezes six times in a row, my heart stops, I, I, I'll be like shaking, sobbing in the bathroom. Like I, I think that we're going to watch her almost die again and, and that I don't know what's causing it.

And I mean, Mark and I cried every day for days after watching that happen. You know, like there's just, I, I, I understand why people become like slavishly religious. You know, I understand why you would just hold a rosary in your hands if you've been through something traumatic, you know, like, and, and this is, I was going to say this is small scale compared to what some people go through, but I think we can do a side with that diminishing of our experiences, right?

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think this is the right time to say like, you know, thank you for. are the times that we face death because they make each moment purer and more beautiful and 

[00:28:07] Amy: richer. In fact, here's another bit from Llewellyn, um, Sawin book. Grief has its place in all of this, but sometimes mourning takes too much of our energy, and instead of acting as a way to teach us what we value, it completely colors our worldview.

It's important to put grief in its proper place, informing us of what we've lost so that we know what in life to cherish. And that's kind of what you were saying, right? Yeah, exactly. It's very important to be confronted with. And I mean, that's kind of like, that's how we know, I don't believe that, you know, people say, Oh, uh, those traumas that happened to you, that made you stronger.

I don't buy that. I don't buy that at all. I think it. Um, it doesn't make you stronger, but it does make you recognize in your resilience how strong you actually are. And that's what the, the tests, they don't make us stronger. Don't think that you can make someone stronger by traumatizing them. You're not, you're not making them stronger.

But what you might be giving them is a knowledge of how incredibly strong they already were. And I think that that's why I'm grateful to Challenges because they really allow me to demonstrate what I'm capable of. And in a soft life without Challenges, you never get a chance to see how fucking badass you 

[00:29:48] Risa: are.

Yeah, there's something too about, you know, that it's It's accelerated for us, our desire to live in a way that she will be proud of, you know, we, that was very real, but it's way more real, you know, like every moment we have with her, we want to be like this, this like joy, this celebration, you know, like Mark gathered all these cedar branches and wove this crazy, you.

Eight foot tall, like womb thing in her room. That's like a reading nook for her birthday. Like, you know, we were, we want to like organic farm on our land and just shape our whole lives. Like just never buy anything that doesn't biodegrade. Like, can we get there? Is that like a fair goal? We're not there yet, but can we set that as like a true goal?

And like, for me, can I, can I get to a life where I'm like writing? And telling stories and doing this podcast and like, I love my day job. It's been fucking awesome. But like, I can I make sure that even my day job is something that my kid looks back and is really proud of, like that we helped shape a world she's happy to live in.


[00:31:01] Amy: you are an ancestor now. In that moment, you became one of these. I'm doing air quotes here, ancestors that we talk about to whom we give our gratitude and our praise and to whom we look, whether you believe that the spirits are around us or not. Like to whom we look for answers and guidance, you are one of those now, you are an ancestor.

So everything you do from this moment on is legacy work, right? I mean, whether you have children or not, everything you do from this moment on is legacy work. Yeah. 

[00:31:35] Risa: I really think that's true. 

[00:31:38] Amy: So speaking of legacy, I want to give another shout out to someone who is, I loved very much. I love very much who passed away this year, um, my uncle Jack.

And I want to tell Risa, you know this story, but I want to tell the story of how uncle Jack lived his life. Um, as a bachelor, now contemporary thinking would think he was probably gay. I don't think so. The story that I heard was that he was in love with a woman who was Christian. Um, we came from a Christian family, but he's atheist, very science minded man.

And so the story goes, she asked him to... Convert, essentially, and it wasn't conversion, but, you know, to sort of re proclaim his faith in Christianity. And, so the story goes, he refused to do so, had his heart broken, and never loved again. Now, fast forward, Uncle Jack is in his seventies. He is a beautiful and kind and thoughtful man who would have all the screaming brats from the family because the parade went by his apartment building and you could see the parade route from his balcony so he would have all us screaming brats over and would treat us with kindness so that we could watch the parade.

Um, but outside of that, you know, not much of a social, didn't have a telephone. If you wanted to reach him, you could call his mother and she would relay a message. Whoa. Right? Like this is what I'm talking about. Um, but in his 70s, I don't know what happened and I never got a chance to ask him, but. Not in so many words, at least, um, he said, fuck all that.

And he started going and hanging out at the senior center, going to the dances. He became the DJ at the senior center dances and was like a rock star in the senior citizen center community. So again, like Um, shout out Uncle Jack for turning it around. I, I think of you so often when I think that I can't change, or when I think it's too late for anything that I think it might be too late for, um, within the laws of physics.

Um, I think of you, Uncle Jack. And, uh, bless your passage and bless your DJing of the seniors. 

[00:34:01] Risa: God bless that. God X, bless that. You know, it's funny, the name Jack keeps coming up. Um, Mae was going to be named Jack if she was a boy. Um, because my grandfather's name was Jack. And, um, Blavatsky, the episode that, um, has come out earlier this season.

Um, she's called Jack by her, her best friend and co founder of the Theosophical Society. Uh, he calls her Jack, she calls him Mahony. And like, I don't know, I just keep coming back to the... I don't know. You know what a name is like or something is like winking at you over and over again, and it's Yeah, it's something about like not being tied to anything.

You know like my grandfather Hilarious like wonderful writer and describes meeting my grandmother when he was a soldier during the Second World War and And just thinking like she was hilarious, you know, like they, she spoke Danish, he spoke English. There's a wonderful love story where they walk each other back and forth from his barracks to her home.

The first night they met back and forth, back and forth, like she, she's walking him home to make sure he gets home safe. And he's walking her home to make sure they get home safe. And they just had this like, I don't know, there was so much, like, trauma and pain in their lives as well, and you know, their life was, was, was multiple.

We all have different versions of their stories when we get together. It was a rich life, and they touched a lot of people in a lot of different ways. But, you know, they drove across Europe in a motorcycle and sidecar with four kids, you know? Like, they were adventurers. They drove from the prairies to Montreal so they could go to Expo 67, and they camped out under an overpass and let the kids run wild.

I don't know, Jack and Mae were, uh, their ancestors for me in that sense and they're on my altar and they're in my mind at this time of year of, you know, I don't think everyone in my family would hold them in the same way, but that's okay. It sort of is like this idea from the, the, the Theosophist that like, you know, there will be a time.

In our transition through the universe after our body is passed where we will hold the people around us in the form that we love them. That's kind of possible to us here too, you know, like we can hold people as guides in the form that we love them without, you know, we're not erasing history. We're not being dishonest, but we're giving ourselves some protection.

To help get through the dark parts of the year, 

[00:36:55] Amy: maybe. Yeah. I had another friend pass away this year. Maybe that's why I proposed this death episode. Um, Alan Euster. And you made me think of him because of, uh, I think we... We convince ourselves that we need to do more or do and be and do and be and do and be and maybe that's because we've been like brainwashed by capitalism or something.

But, Alan, um, was a fan. And a supporter. If you were in a band in Montreal at a certain time, you knew Alan. And if you were in a good band, you saw Alan. Appreciating. Um, and I think that when he passed away, Dozens and dozens and dozens of people came out to talk about how, um, even just seeing him in a crowd was like a reassurance, um, having him buy your merch was a badge of honor.

Um, and so when, again, like I think of you, Alan, when I, when I feel the need to create or do more and do more that sometimes, um, just... reading your friend's story and telling them it's good is also legacy work. Being a supporter is so important. Being that face in the crowd, whether it's for your family or for your favorite band, is so important.

And yeah, I think we, I think we push too hard sometimes to be creators and we, we need to remember that it's so important to be supporters too, you know? Yeah, 

[00:38:50] Risa: that rings so true for me and it's funny, May right now, like it, I'll, I'll take like a Cheerio or like a little, um, anything and, and look through it and be like, I see you, May, I see you.

And she pauses and then like... lights up, like her whole being lights up, because you see, you see her like, and, and it's, I feel like it's specific to between me and her right now where like, I'm not nursing her all night long anymore. She's figured out sleep, you know, she's healthier, she's, she's crawling, she's close to walking.

And there's these moments where both of us are like. Oh, no, like, get back inside. They were too far away, or where she'll, like, crawl in and be like, oh, no, I didn't mean to, like, I didn't know that meant that I would be away from 

[00:39:43] Amy: you. I didn't realize the consequences. 

[00:39:46] Risa: I didn't realize the consequences when we go back.

And so, um, yeah, that it. It is legacy work to really see people and, and just purely that, you know, just, I see you, I see you, I see what you're doing, it's beautiful, I see what you're trying, I see you, just you, and it's great. 

[00:40:03] Amy: Like, I maintain that, um, Um, you know, smiling at a stranger is an act of witchcraft and magic because, um, like, like Phoenix said from season one, and I say this all the time and it's been said in many ways by many people, but Phoenix is the voice that I hear.

Magic has a rippling effect. All of these things, these small things that we can and should do that we might shrug off. Oh, it's nothing. I won't even bother with that because it won't make any difference. It does. Yeah. It can and it will. 

[00:40:41] Risa: You just reminded me of a story and it, it's so funny, um, someone pointed out that often when magical things happen to us, our, our ego is quick.

To forget them. Mm. Um, because it suggests that the ego isn't in control and that magic is real. And so the ego is very quick to be like, that was a dream. Or just forget it entirely. I think that was in a, a Caroline Elliot, um, writing, but, um, and I did, I almost forgot this one and I wanted to tell it to you, and maybe it'll make sense as an end to this podcast because it was a moment I had this week of being waved at.

I feel by someone who had died and of magic rippling. Um, May and I were walking around Montreal. We had found an umbrella. And we took it out in the rain that day and she was strapped on me and I had to go and do some stuff and had to go to a lunch and left the lunch and got my little baby all wrapped up and walked six blocks and I'm tired and my feet are hurting.

I've been walking around all day and it starts to rain and I realize I don't have the umbrella. Um, I'm standing on the corner of the street having this realization. I make eye contact with this like really beautifully dressed Japanese man and he's just looking at me and I'm looking at him and, and, uh, and I'm just trying to decide if I should walk back the six blocks and then go back and get to the Metro and do the trek the half hour to where we're staying.

And he walks by me and just so quick, I can't say no, hands me his umbrella and says, Please, you have to accept this. You need it more than I do. And just walks away. And so I have tears in my eyes and I walk in the rain in the umbrella, cuddling the kid and get on the metro and sit down next to this like, really beautiful um, girl and she looks like she's been crying and she's chatting with Mae and she's handing her her ticket for the metro and Mae's playing with it and handing it back and Mae takes it and she's like you know.

When a kid gets something that they're like, this is mine now. And I'm like, oh kid, you know, you got to give the lady back her ticket. And the girl's like, um, no, I probably don't need it. I can walk, you know, then I'm like, no, you need your transfer. The kid doesn't need it. It's just a random piece of 

[00:43:06] Amy: paper.

Remember that thing I was talking about earlier, about wanting to help so badly that you will for no reason at all walk in the rain when you have a metro ticket so that you don't make a baby cry? Yeah, exactly. 

[00:43:16] Risa: Carry on, carry on. Exactly that, and I'm like, no, no, you're okay. Take your transfer. And she's like, you know, it's just like, what's important in life?

Like, I could walk. And I was like, yeah, no, you're sweet. She's okay. And I was like, actually, you know, I have this umbrella. Uh, I'm like letting Mae play with the umbrella instead of the ticket and I'm like, someone just gave this to us. It's so funny. You know, we were walking, it was raining, a guy gave me the umbrella, walked away and she looks up at me and she's like, I'm in Montreal for my father's funeral.

That's something my dad would have done. That's something my dad did do. She's just looking at me like crying, you know, and I was like, maybe. Maybe that was your dad, like, waving, like, you know, maybe this is just one of those, you know, maybe that was, and she was like, yeah, you know, we were both just sort of stunned.

Yeah. And then I got off the metro. 

[00:44:13] Amy: But you had, you shared this profound moment of magic. Yeah. And I love your use of the word maybe, I mean, in the MyGene episode, I used the word maybe about a hundred times. Like, maybe, maybe, maybe is. I think it's where we exist, whether we admit it or not. So, let's embrace the maybe.

Maybe it was her father. Maybe it 

[00:44:32] Risa: was. And you know, when I spoke to Mark about that story afterwards, he was like, and I had had this feeling too, like maybe the, um, the message in that moment or in that story is to tell strangers your stories, you know. Because it was only by telling her what had happened that we had that moment.

And that, that's, that's the impetus to connect, whether it's coming from a person who has passed or it's coming from like the universe or soul of all of us just trying to connect with each other is fucking super powerful.

[00:45:11] Amy: Yeah, the message is. Share your story. Share kindness. Share umbrellas. 

[00:45:17] Risa: Yeah. But keep your ticket if you need it. 

[00:45:21] Amy: Keep 

[00:45:22] Risa: your metro ticket. Put your mask on, keep your ticket. Yes, right, 

[00:45:27] Amy: right. I mean, we're spirits. You know? We, we exist with this ability to do these magical and to, to Send these messages. Yeah, 

[00:45:41] Risa:

[00:45:44] Amy: Can't think of a better way to end our saw in Episode and season three of the missing witches podcast.

Thank you guys so much. Thank you so much It's been another amazing journey with all of you. We want to thank our patrons so much. We have so many gifts 

[00:46:04] Risa: Oh my gosh, we've been making things. Mark is a leather worker. He's got some gifts for you. You may have them by the time you hear this, but maybe not. Um, we're excited.

We're going to send like a handmade with our, with our beautiful logo on it. That Amy made like burned, etched into the leather on a copper key ring to everyone who's a patron of ours. See pictures of them on our Instagram. So if you have a dollar a month or 5 a month, no matter what amount we want to send you this little badge of belonging to our coven, 

[00:46:36] Amy: yeah, and if you have no money to spare and Hey, I've been there.

I know Reese has to, then just thank you for listening. We feel heard. We feel seen. It's a gift that you give us every time you. Listen 

[00:46:52] Risa: to us. To offer your ears, yeah. Thank you for being here. 

[00:46:56] Amy: Write to us at missingwitches at gmail dot com. Check us out on socials at missingwitches. If you want to become a patron, do so.

And one final shout out to our amazing sponsor. Season 3 of the Missing Witches podcast is sponsored by Fox Club Farm. Use offer code missingwitches. We love you all.

Asking you to believe. Let it be my choice. Let it be true. As I decide to make. The choice I must make. Let it be my destiny. Let it be my choice.

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