The Missing Witches podcast is proudly ad-free, but I’m officially doing a sales pitch here - the Library of Esoterica series is amazing, and I own every volume, so I was super excited to sit down with Jessica Hundley to learn about the genesis of this incredible project!
Jessica is a storyteller. In her writing, journalism, filmmaking and creative direction work, she delves into narrative art, music, counterculture, magick, punk and and psychedelia. Some of my very favourite subjects! Jessica is also of course the editor/shepherd of the Library of Esoterica series.
The newest volume is Spirit Worlds. Featuring essays, interviews and over 400 images, from cave paintings to contemporary works of channeled art, Spirit Worlds steps through darkened doorways and into the labyrinths that lead to the mysterious, to kingdoms of the afterlife and to communion with denizens of dimensions, just beyond our own. Spirit Worlds is out now - But be warned - buy one and you’re gonna want the whole set!!
Jess insists, "Everyone is an artist. You're creating your own reality, your own life."
Listen now, transcript below:
TRANSCRIPT
Amy: [00:00:00] If you wanna support the Missing Witches Project, join the Coven and come hang out with us. Or buy our books, new Moon Magic and Missing Witches, and our deck of Oracles the Missing Witches Deck of Oracles. Find everything you need to know @ missingwitches.com.
Intro: You aren't being a proper woman, therefore you must be a witch.
Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. A witch. You must be a witch.
Amy: Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Missing Witch is podcast. My name is Amy, and let me start here. The Missing Witches podcast is proudly ad free, but today I'm officially doing a sales pitch here.
The Library of Esoterica series is amazing, and I own every volume, so I'm super excited to sit down with Jessica Hundley today to learn about the genesis of this incredible project. Jessica is a storyteller. In her [00:01:00] writing, journalism, filmmaking, and creative direction work, she delves into narrative art, music, counterculture, one of my favorite subjects, magic, another one of my favorite subjects, and psychedelic yet another one of my favorite subjects.
And of course, she is also the editor of the Library of Esoterica series. The newest volume is Spirit Worlds featuring essays, interviews, and over. 400 images from cave paintings to contemporary works of channeled art. Spirit worlds steps through the darkened doorways and into the labyrinths that lead to the mysterious to kingdoms of the afterlife and to communion with denizens of dimensions just beyond our own.
Spirit Worlds is out now, but be warned, buy one and you're gonna want the whole set. Please help me welcome Jessica Huntley. Hi [00:02:00] Jessica.
Jessica: Hello.
So good to be here. Thank you for having me.
Amy: I'm so thrilled to have you here, and y'all, Jessica is sitting amongst the trees with this gorgeous beam of light shining down.
It's, it's perfect. Obviously I'm a fan, but before we dive into the work. Proper. What do you want our listeners to know about you? Like who are you today in this moment?
Jessica: Who am I today? I am. I feel like I am lucky enough to be sort of I would say at a cumulative apex point. I mean, hopefully not the, the top of the mountain still climbing, but sort of.
Very grateful to be at a point in my career where I can be building on all the experiences I've had from the [00:03:00] past in order to shepherd these volumes And Sacred Sites is out now and Spirit Worlds, which is Sacred Sites is actually Five and Spirit Worlds is Six and Spirit Worlds is just arriving in the States.
You have, as I was saying in advance, a copy before I have a copy, so. But yeah, I'm very grateful to kind of be taking all of my experience as a writer and culture journalist and director and be sort of. Creating a platform and a, and a sort of vessels for all of these, not only ideas and practices, but incredible artists past and present scholars.
So I always say these books are very much they are a living, breathing, and evolving community. And so I am just. Sitting at a point of just gratitude really that I, [00:04:00] that I have the honor of yeah. Helping to manifest these books.
Amy: I love that you used the word shepherd like. It's not so much because again, these, you, you're curating these, you're obviously not creating 400 different paintings and so on.
Yeah. But this idea of the shepherd, you're like herding these ideas together and herding these, these images together in these essays. I love that. Shepherding. I think I might replace the word curating with the word shepherding. You didn't specifically say, so I have to know, like, do you identify as a witch?
Yes. Do you use other vocab? Yes. So tell me about, tell me about that. Like, do you feel like you were born a witch? Do you feel like you became a witch? How did that journey, what did that journey look like for you?
Jessica: I I feel like we are all sort of born witches, right? We are all born sort of connected [00:05:00] to the sort of overarching.
Sort of conceptual idea of what that word means in terms of having a very deep connection to our own intuition, to the the sort of other realms of in nature into earth. I grew up in western Massachusetts in the deep in the woods. Spent a lot of time alone. I was an only child until I was about nine.
Spent a lot of time talking to the trees and to the ferries and, was always very fascinated by nature and by music and art. And you know, I think I got my first tarot deck when I was about 11, 12 and was always sort of, fascinated by this idea of being able to tap into your own [00:06:00] intuition for answers and also this idea of the alchemy of art, of creation as magic.
And so that's something that I've really kind of held onto throughout my life and have gone back to again and again. To me. All the ideas and concepts that we talk about in the library of esoterica to me are these sort of touchstones transformative tools to tap into your own. Voice your own intuition and be able to kind of overcome fear and blocks and obstacles in order to offer your own voice to the world, your own creativity to the world.
And that is a reason why they've been hidden and sublimated and made scary or obtuse or secret is because they are these, these ways in that empower. The person themselves to be able to express who they really are in the world, which we need [00:07:00] now more than ever. So,
Amy: absolutely, and, and it is kind of like, intuition to me is like counter to fascism, counter to capitalism, where.
We are looking inside of ourselves for answers instead of being told what we need to buy to be happy, how we need to behave to like be legitimate humans. Mm-hmm. And witchcraft runs counter to that, which, I mean, as you said, you know, you, you. Became a witch. I guess I'll use scare quotes here, became, because as you said, you know, it was kind of always because you were into trees and fairies and art and music and, and, and, and literature, and all of these things can be encompassed under that umbrella of witchcraft.
Sure. Which to me is. It's why I self-identify as witch or part of it anyway, because it's, it's such a nebulous [00:08:00] label. I'm not like super into labeling myself, but the label of witch is so expansive that it almost doesn't feel like a, like a label at all.
Jessica: Yeah, it's almost like a genre, right? It's like punk or.
Or I mean, you know, I mean, I think, I think I'm saying that as a sort of general idea. Of course there are, you know, very dedicated witches who practice a specific dogma. But to me, the way that I identify with that term is, you know, and I also, you know, I grew up with. Goth music and punk and DIY and I had a zine and that's how I started sort of in my journalism career, was having the zine, which to me, all of these forms of counterculture and outsider are are all sort of pointing back to this idea of sort of owning your own.
[00:09:00] Identity not conforming to sort of the expectation societally. And being who you really are and loving what you really love in a fearless way.
Amy: I think all witches are punks. Whether, whether they self identify as punk or not, because exactly like you're saying that is that I'm taking my own direction.
DIY is obviously a huge thing in witchcraft. Like we're making our ingredients, we're growing herbs ourselves, you know, and maybe that doesn't belong in like CBGB, the growing of. Herbs. But to me it's like, sure. It's very, it's very connected. Bring me back to the series again, listeners. I'm touching it.
They're gorgeous. They're sensual, like they really, and I do love Tian. I have to shout out Tash for making affordable art books. Mm. So thank you Tasha, for helping me fill all of my shelves with various affordable coffee table art books.
Jessica: Yes. [00:10:00] I'm very lucky to be working with them. I've been working with them on other books for the last 15 years, and, it's an incredible publisher, and we actually are doing we, they just came out. We're doing, starting to do pocket editions of our books. So we have tarot and astrology. The first two books are now out in these smaller $20 editions, which I'm very excited about. 'cause my whole idea when coming to Tasha with.
This project was to make them as affordable as possible. And they still, you know, even these 500 page books are still only $40, but now we are gonna have a $20 version as well, which is. I'm very excited about,
Amy: like,
Jessica: so accessible and also a little easier to travel with.
Amy: Yeah, right. Like pocket, like you said.
Yeah. That's so accessible. That's that's wonderful. I, I cannot allow myself to buy both versions of the set, but it is, it is tempting. But like. [00:11:00] It seems, I don't want to say obvious, but it's like one of those things that comes out and you're like, or I was anyway of like, of course this needed to exist.
Like why, why, why only now? It seems like this whole set, I mean, again, visually. I feel like they could exist at any time after the invention of the printing press. They're so, they're so timeless and, again, like I said, educational, but sensual at the same time. They really are kind of everything.
They're well named, right? Because each volume feels like a library unto itself. And then when you start them to put them together, it's this like library on library, on library. So first of all, I wanna know like, where did this idea come from? Yeah. And secondly, how did you shepherd? All of the [00:12:00] possibilities into the first, like the, a single book, witchcraft was the first one.
Right?
Jessica: Tarot? Tarot. Tarot
Amy: was the first one. Right.
Jessica: Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, like I said, was always sort of very interested in the occult and in magic and I might. Career. I, I've, I was a, I am still a culture journalist. I still write for many magazines and newspapers and but I started my career writing about music and film and art.
And I did. Several books with Tasha that were music and film books. I did a, a book with the actor and artist and director Dennis Hopper. I did before he passed away. I did a book on John and Yoko Ono. On the Imagine album I did a book about Bob Dylan. And when I started thinking about this idea, I, [00:13:00] I, I also work with other publishers. I'm a freelancer for tushan, so I had done several music and several film books and I, in my own time was researching and getting books by occult authors, collecting tarot decks. And what I found was that a lot of, a lot of books about the occult philosophies and traditions were either very academic, very scholarly or also from a particular point of view from the, the astrologist point of view or that specific reader's point of view, tarot reader's point of view and also.
Not. Art books, and to me, magic and art are intertwined. There's, there's, we've been expressing these ideas visually for a millennium. So I started to [00:14:00] think, oh, it'd be really interesting to do introductory, and I always say this, these books are very much introductions to these ideas. We, we have a whole mission statement at the back of every book that's the same in every book, which is basically like.
Here's the key, go deeper. We have extended bibliography resources, like go deeper if something resonates. I am not an expert. I am a journalist, so trying to approach these subjects from a journalistic perspective, and something I always say is I'm writing about. You know, tarot or ritual or the pyramids in the same way.
I would say write a New Yorker article on my favorite band. I'm going deep with research, but I'm also expressing my own passion, but I'm also staying objective. And and then we incorporate specific voices and of course I [00:15:00] interview. You know, contemporary practitioners, scholars and we incorporate those as poll quotes throughout the book.
So we're, you're really kind of hearing from all these amazing people who are deep studying these topics deeply but allowing them to have to express that in their own voice. And then sort of offering with my essays. That I write a more general sort of overview. We always start with the history of a topic and then we always end.
The last chapter of every book is always how these traditions are incorporated into pop culture and contemporary fine art. And so you're kind of getting this bird's eye view and also, one of the great joys of this book, these books are. Being able to work with archives all over the world work with museums all over the world, pull from these incredible archives of [00:16:00] material, but then also work with all these amazing contemporary scholars, contemporary artists.
So you'll have. You know, an ancient Egyptian mural next to a Japanese contemporary artist. There's the, the books are arranged by, by idea and topic, not chron chronology. So it's this beautiful way of showing how these concepts have been explored. Through thousands of years in different ways visually.
So, so yeah. So that is that, and, and Tarot being the first book each of the, the books is structured in some ways. The Tarot was of course the great book to start on because it is a visual esoteric art. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's a symbolic, esoteric art. It also, at the time, there were no books that were like this book.
There's been many great books since that [00:17:00] are collected, works of tarot. But there really wasn't anything like this. And, and it being sort of my first connection to esoteric philosophy and art it felt like a good place to kind of start and then it ended up. The Numerological structure, the 22 Major Arcana, all of that got woven into the actual structure of the book.
So we always have what the designer, thunder Wing, who is very much my partner in this. Nick Taylor is his name. Thunder Wing is his studio. Mm-hmm. He was a friend that I brought onto this project. And is we, we kind of always have like, what is our major arcana section? And yeah, so go Nick.
Someone's writing. Go Nick. He's amazing. Yeah. And, and his wife Jennifer, who was also part of Thunder Ring, they're just amazing. I mean, they're, they're, you know it's all an amazing team of people working on this. And so, yeah. We always kind of unlock the. Each [00:18:00] book the topic through really this magical table of contents the Spirit Worlds book, the the Sacred Sites book is set up like a pilgrimage.
We, we leave the site, we, we move through the world. The Spirit Worlds book is set up like a seance. So we, we open the circle, we call in the guides. We actually have a beautiful. SIL that we commissioned at the front of the book. That's a sort of protective sil for welcoming in the reader, welcoming in the spirits, but also, you know, forming some boundaries because we go into all sorts of demonology and, you know, it's, there's angels, there's demons, there's celestial beings, there's aliens, there's all of these ideas that we're exploring. So we kind of set it up as a ceremony. So the book, book itself is a ceremony. So yeah, and Nick created our.
Logo, which you can see on the spine, [00:19:00] which is a key, but it's actually the library of Terica, TA, t an L, and O and an E. And that really sums up what these books are. They're keys to unlock and then you move forward, go deeper. If you resonate with something that they're an invitation, you know, they, they are, they're not these sort of academic deep dives. They are excited journalistic celebrations of these ideas with a call at the end of every book to kind of go deeper and explore all of the amazing people who are part of our books and the community around our books. And we just launched our newsletter, which I'm so excited about.
It's free and like there's such an incredible community of. It's evolving all the time of artists that are having shows and all over the world of, you know, Pam Grossman, who's my co-editor on [00:20:00] the witchcraft book, who's amazing, has a new book coming out. So I'm trying to kind of figure out different ways to be supporting the community that is evolving through the books.
Amy: Yes, I got an advanced reading copy of Pam's new book. She's gonna be on the pod too. And I mean, we'll talk about Pam another time, but listeners like this is the kind of richness that I'm talking about when I recommend this book series that like the logo is a key, which makes sense, but it's also a sidal.
That was created by a magician. Like that's the richness that I'm talking about with these books. And, and you touched on this, but it's so interesting to me when I'm, I'm flipping through them. I know members of our coven will sit down when they get a new volume and read it cover to cover. I'm like a flip arounder.
It's just who I'm,
Jessica: yeah. Biblio Nancy.
Amy: A little biblio Nancy. But what's striking to me is how. I mean, again, it's practices, it's it's art, it, it, it's, [00:21:00] it's eso esotericism from all across history, but it all resonates. For us in our contemporary culture and there's something so timeless about the occult and I was thinking about how, you know now, at the beginning of the 21st century, we were seeing this real resurgence in, in people getting into witchcraft or dabbling or, or even just thinking differently.
Mm-hmm. But we also saw that at the turn of the last century. Yes. You know, with the Crowley and the, and the pixie Coleman Smith and the, and the, and the Golden Dawn. So, I mean, this is kind of a weird question, but what do you think it is about turns of centuries that make us, and maybe it has nothing to do with turns of centuries, and if that's the case, then please.
Like what, why do you think there's this sort of cyclical. Emergence and then sort of shadow and light and shadow. [00:22:00]
Jessica: Yeah, I mean, I think that we, you know, we go through these cycles, of course. I think there's, you know, this, this, the planetary cycles, the astrological cycles the movement of, of civilization, but also our connection, the way that we of technology.
And I think also too, you have these kind of, you know, you of course in the middle of the, 20th century you have sort of the, the counterculture, the sixties counterculture, the fifties, and as the beatniks and the, and there also was a renewed interest in esoteric and that came with the counterculture.
And I do think that, art and esoteric philosophies tend to merge. You have the surrealists of the 1920s who were working with dreams, who were working with, you know, spirits. You have Hilma Olin, who is connecting with five other women and [00:23:00] automatic drawing. You have the spiritualists of the mid 18 hundreds who were I think politics, art movements and esoteric all kind of blend into one. And I think when you have a political movement that is striving for some sort of freedom, freedom of thought, for the, the spiritualists. They were very involved with the suffragette movement. They were very involved with with the, in the sixties there was the civil rights movement.
There was the second wave, you know, sort of feminist movement. I think that, that there is a, these, like I said, these are ideas, these are philosophies that are. That are there for us to be able to empower ourselves, to be able to transform not only ourselves, but the world, right? So I think that allowing people access to these tools in the guise of [00:24:00] a pretty art book is kind of my main goal.
I the Trojan horse. Of of like, oh, it's a really pretty art book, but it's actually got these very you know transformational concepts. And all of these ideas really are, you know, based in our original indigenous religions. No matter where you are in the world, you have an indigenous religion that was really based in.
Connecting to the earth and connecting to community. And so I, I feel like a lot of these concepts kind of can be traced back to wherever each of us is from originally, where our ancestry is from, to these early traditions pre-Christian traditions. So.
Amy: All time. Mm-hmm. Magic is always, I mean, again, like I think, I can't remember the exact number, but the first like [00:25:00] evidence of humans doing kind of magical rituals that they found.
I can't remember if it's like 20,000. Years old, or maybe even more, but I mean, we've only had electricity for like 150 years, but we've been doing magic for 20,000 years. Yeah. I'm gonna read something because again, like you said, you, you write an essay for each book and they're, they're generally at the beginning of the book.
This is,
Jessica: I actually write most of the books. Most, most of the essays in the books. I, witchcraft has many other writers. Yeah. But the rest of the books are pretty much me. Occasionally we'll have a I'll invite someone to do an essay. The Spirit Worlds books has two journalists that contributed essays.
The tarot book, I wrote the whole thing. Sacred Sites. I wrote the whole thing. But I always write an introduction, so yeah. Yeah,
Amy: so this is from Spirit Worlds, the newest [00:26:00] volume you wrote. We showcase those artworks that transcend and become conduits that speak with the spirits. That channel, not only the muse, but ghosts, celestial beings and guides, works that envision dimensions beyond our own and that translate for us cathartic messages from the divine.
It's so poetic. Can you expand on this idea of a translation of cathartic messages from the,
Jessica: you know, this book particularly there? The last chapter, as I said, every book has a last chapter which connects with the ways that we explore these concepts within. Contemporary culture and by contemporary culture, I mean, you know, the 20th and 20th first century [00:27:00] essentially. And the, the final chapter of Spirit World is a, a chapter that explores what really, what all the books are exploring, in which I would love to just do a massive book that's just this, but.
Basically channeled art, art that the artist was specifically channeling and has acknowledged they are channeling their work through meditation. In the case of like an Agnes Pelton who was part of the amazing transcendental painting group, or Hilma Olin, who was working with the five. To channel specific guides who were guiding her paintings for the future.
Paulina Peevy, who's an amazing artist from the fifties who was at a seance and essentially tapped into a what she later claim was a, was a extraterrestrial being who was [00:28:00] channeling her works through her. I think you have. As well. Artists like Sun Ra or Alice Coltrane or any of these like incredible artists who are, you know, sun Ra was channeling guides from other worlds from the past, from Atlantas, from the serious Star.
You have. All art, I believe is channeled, but, but I essentially we're showcasing artists who have like said, this is from I am channeling this work. And so it's, it's, it's really beautiful, incredible work that has been taken from. The ether did the divine, whatever that artist felt was source. Whether it was an extraterrestrial, whether it was a, a guide, whether it was an angel whether it was through some sort of meditative, somatic process and created art from it.
And [00:29:00] that to me is so exciting and is really the core idea of these books is like, how do we. Tap in and channel our own creativity. How do we clear our own channels to channel our own creativity? And when I say creativity, I don't mean necessarily art or music or you know, dance or performance. It's how you live.
It's how you interact with the world. Any, everyone is an artist. You're, you're creating your own reality, your own life. And it'll make you, everyone has something to offer that's so unique to who they are because there's, you know, the, the, the ultimate beautiful made of Stardust. Each of us having lived our own experiences, there's no one who has our voice, right?
So how do we. Understand what turns us on, what, what we are channeling, what we are tapped into, and what we wanna offer. And then [00:30:00] how do we express that in, in our work, in our relationships you know, and it doesn't mean necessarily monetizing it or, you know, becoming famous from it, and sometimes it does.
And but if you love to do something and you really speak through. The garden, you know, through teaching others, through being a mother or a father, then, then these, these tools are ways to kind of go deeper in in that offering. You know,
Amy: listeners like you can't see me, but I'm literally just like bouncing up and down in my chair because I'm so excited about this.
Like, Jess, we're gonna have to get together another time and just talk about Sun Raw, Yoko Ono Graham Parsons.
Jessica: Yes. Yes.
Amy: I know you've done some writing of it, gram Parsons who like lives eternally inside my heart.
Jessica: My Facebook. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Amy: But I suppose to stick to the topic at hand. I agree [00:31:00] completely.
And I think that that's, again, something that is am missing from our, our, and again, fascism, capitalism, whatever has driven this idea out of us that our lives are a creative process.
Intro: Yes.
Amy: That you don't have to be sun raw and you know, a golden cape and a story about outer space in order to be creative.
Yeah. Like we have the potential to make creative decisions every minute of every day. Yes. I think that this series is potentially gonna really inspire people to, to take that up because it, you cover so many different aspects. There's something in there that will inspire. Everyone. And again, like as a, as a musician myself, I sort of think of myself as a sonic witch.
Mm.
Jessica: Yeah.
Amy: I found that too. Sometimes I'm writing a song and it's laborious and I'm, I'm working and working and sometimes the song just, it. [00:32:00] Comes. Sure. It just like you say, from the ether, and all I have to do is transcribe it. Mm-hmm. And that's so exciting to me because it, like, it makes me believe in this, in this idea that everything that happens in our imaginations is potentially connected to the spirit world.
Sure.
Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. So
Amy: if, if someone is like thinking about maybe a loved one who has passed and, and an idea pops into their head, whether it's like. The smell of their perfume, or that these aren't necessarily just, oh, well, it was just my imagination. We've demeaned the imagination, I think, right? Yeah. And so now, instead of like, well, that's just my imagination, I think to myself, well.
That's a message from Spirit and it makes me feel more confident about going forward and materializing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jessica: Yeah. It's one of the things I love about Tarot is, you know, and, and, or. [00:33:00] Ducks and divination is this idea that, I mean, particularly with traditional tarot, you have these 22 archetypes that have been in place at least since the 11 hundreds, and it's always so amazing to me that.
You know, you have the fool, you have the human journey as exemplified by the fool, into the magician, into the high priestess and empress, and you have these archetypes that have resonated with us. We are the same in terms of our wants, our desires, our needs, our dreams as we were 800 years ago because we resonate with these archetypes.
And to me, the way that I use tarot is really as I do a card pull every day. I usually work just with the 22 arcana, the traditional arcana, and I just say, you know, what should I be focusing on? Or if I'm working creatively. What's blocking me [00:34:00] and, and to me these are archetypes that really kind of tell you what you already know and they're these direct lines into your own intuition.
And I think that all of these. Philosophies, these traditions, these practices, whether it's ritual whether it is connecting with the earth through plant magic, through herbs, through forest bathing. Whether it's connecting with community through, you know, performance or dance or theater or. Connecting with your guides.
They're all just ways. They're connections, they're ways to connect to source to yourself, to each other, to the planet, to above and below, right? So I just I feel like what I'm trying to do really is, is introduce a lot of these ideas and let the reader. Also just enjoy the beautiful art and the beautiful quotes from [00:35:00] amazing practitioners and scholars, but also find what, what works for them.
Find what resonates with them. Because some people may, may be more connected to astrology, some people may be more connected to ritualistic witchcraft and certain, a certain tradition. It's whatever palette, you know, you can. Create on your own. And sometimes it's a, I mean, for me, and I think for for many people, it's a sort of beautiful quilt that we're weaving of different ideas and traditions that resonate with us.
And I was raised Catholic and obviously I have a lot of issues with the Catholicism and Christianity in general, but there is also some core concepts within that that I still sort of retain. In my, my own traditional practice, and I think it's very important for fe people to feel connected. We have a time where we have so many people [00:36:00] seeking and they don't necessarily feel comfortable within traditional religious structures, but we still need to feel connected to some sort of source in order to feel connected to each other and to ourselves.
So. Finding what source means to you and what spirit means to you, I think is very essential. And then one of the beautiful things is we have technology now, which allows us to connect with those who are connected to those particular tribes. You know you have community and you can find them. And so I think that that's also, I think that's also why there's been a huge upsurge in, you know, this idea of the witch of alternate spiritualities of the occult is because we do have a way of making these connections now through the [00:37:00] internet, through Instagram, through podcasts we have a way of connecting with others of our ilk, you know, which.
Which was not the case when I was growing up. You really had to search. And that's also one of the reasons why I think curation, shepherding is so shepherding.
Amy: Thank you. Yes.
Jessica: And, and just to kind of, you know, bring it back to what I said at the beginning, I feel so lucky that I have a career where I've been.
A journalist studying music and culture and art, and I know I can, I can, I feel like my job is to, you know, point out things that maybe didn't get their fado the first time around that were underground and kind of hold them up and offer them for people to see and, and to. Remind them of all this amazing, all this [00:38:00] amazing stuff that's happening.
We're bombarded with, right. But. How do we curate that? And I'm really trying to become a trusted source of like, Hey, look at all this amazing art, all of this amazing music, all of this amazing writing, these voices, these scholars, how do we and contain them and, and offer them and hold them up to the light, you know, sort of pull them out of the depths and hold them up to the light.
And that really is my, sort of mission
Amy: in the, I think it's in the witchcraft book. You, you wrote, we are All Witches.
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Amy: Yes. So firstly I appreciate that invitation and that sort of permission slip maybe. For everyone to think of themselves as a witch, but why, why do you think everyone is a witch?
Or we, we at least are all witches here.
Jessica: Yeah, I mean we're just, I mean, what an incredible magical beings we are as humans [00:39:00] in, in, in these beautiful bodies and consciousness. And I think that we. We just need to be reminded of the power that we have and we need to be reminded of the beauty of nature, of the earth that we're on, the bodies we're in, and marry that with this consciousness that we are all part of, this technology that we all have access to.
But not. Live entirely there, right? It's all the balance. But taking, grounding ourselves in, you know, nature first I think is really important. And finding our power where we can. But but yeah, we, we all have, I mean, you know, we're all this. Walking miracles, right? That we even exist in this timeline and this moment in these bodies.
And you [00:40:00] know what an incredible time to be harnessing your power too.
Amy: I have to ask. I am currently writing and by the time this interview comes out, it'll listeners, you will have heard this episode I'm writing about Yoko Ono from, from this, this witch perspective. Not from this, yes. This Beatles history perspective.
Right. And I know you of course the classic. Yes. I'm a witch. I'm a bitch. Yes. I don't care what you say. You wrote about Yoko. Outside of witchcraft, you, you wrote about Yoko. So as I'm still creating this script, I already quoted what you wrote about Yoko in the witchcraft book. In the script. But like, is there anything else you wanna say about Yoko that I can, I can take from my script?
Yeah, I mean,
Jessica: Yoko's work is in almost all the books too, her visual art.
Jessica: Her visual art mm-hmm. Is almost always included or we write about it and, and that, that quote you have [00:41:00] from the witchcraft book that starts the book, which if just from her song
Intro: mm-hmm.
Jessica: Is, is really, I, I think that her she's, I, I was lucky enough to interview her and one of the things she said, which I always go back to and I feel like is so important, especially.
For younger people, I think to understand is I asked her, I said. You know, you were sort of at this moment of revolution and change and you know, of the sixties moving into a whole new era and do you think that the world is a better place now or then? Mm-hmm. Without hesitation, she said the world is by far a better place now.
She said, you know, there were, so she said, you have to remember there were so few of us. That, yes, our voices were loud and in retrospect [00:42:00] you think it was this massive movement. She said, there were so few of us, and now you have, she said, you know, now you have housewives in Iowa doing yoga. You have, you know, she's like the, the expansion of people taking control of their own lives and.
Taking care of themselves through, you know, all these different practices which were considered obscure or weird, or they're now. Universal and we have this tool, the internet, which she uses very, very powerfully and wisely and art and music to be able to express these ideas. And she was unequivocally know as hard as it is to kind of see there are more people in the world trying [00:43:00] to.
Transform it in a positive way than there were in 1968. You know, so for her that that really someone that wise, who's been here that long to, to say that is something I always go back to. And I, I, I, myself, I just turned 55 and I can tell you unequivocally that the world is a better place now than it was when I was a child in the seventies.
Is as, as much as we're bombarded by the chaos and the sadness and the crisis. There's still people in general are kinder, more accepting, more open and more loving than they've ever been in the history of human civilization. So I think that's something really important to hold onto when you feel overwhelmed and you know, again, bringing it back to yourself.
How can you be [00:44:00] the kindest, most open, most loving person you can be? From there, it's everything is possible, right? So.
Amy: Oh, perfect. Beautiful and, and reassuring. I wanna thank you, Jessica, not just for this series with which I am obsessed, but also for being an eighties zine punk, for giving, for giving people like me resources before the internet.
You know, I was born in the late seventies. I'm not that much younger than you, but you know, my sister is about your age. So she was, you know, giving me her her de glow abortions records, and, and this is how we learned about stuff. We would go to the record store, we would get a scene written by somebody like you.
Do you ever miss that? Do you ever miss the pre-internet?
Jessica: Yes, but also it's all there, right? It's again, this, it's this reminder. I [00:45:00] feel like zines are coming back. I feel like people are in love with the analog. I mean, I'm making books that somehow are, you know, people wanna. Wanna have, they, they, they wanna have these ideas in a analog form.
People love their vinyl. I mean, it's all there. I think go out and support your bookstore, support your record store you know, make a zine. I think, I think the, it's all about that balance of, of, you know, we, we don't wanna exist entirely in this. You know, pocket computer that we all are connected to by, you know, the umbilical cord of technology.
But I think it's just, it's, and this is this amazing magic wand and tool if used wisely, right? So it's all about connecting back to IRL, right? Mm-hmm.
Amy: I mean, that's the thing, right? The people who like sort of mourn the olden days you can still go walk in the woods.
Jessica: [00:46:00] Yes,
Amy: you, you don't have to take your phone with you.
The woods are still there. Baking bread from scratch is still possible, like all of these things. But now we also have this incredible web of connection like you were talking about, that allows me in Montreal to be speaking to yes, face to face in la. In real time. Yes. Like I, I get super excited. I might sometimes, like, you know, mourn the mourn the olden days of being bored, you know, I've kind of forgotten what boredom.
Jessica: Yeah, no, boredom is important. But I do think, you know, we, we we just have to prac, we have to empower ourselves to, to be able to use this. These tools wisely and not become the so worker's apprentice and allow it to, you know, understand how to be in the world as well as online, you know?
Amy: Before we run out of time, you did mention you're working on the next volume. Mm-hmm. Is it under wraps? Is it a secret or can [00:47:00] you give us a little No,
Jessica: it's it is mystical beasts.
Amy: Oh. Listeners, if, if, if you listen to the Missing Witches podcast, you know that every spring we devote an entire season to the non-human world.
So what's the, do you know what the pub date is for that?
Jessica: Well, they wanted it much earlier, but I am pushing back because I, we are almost done with it, but I also am like I want Spirit worlds to have a moment to, to breathe. Mm-hmm. So I think it'll probably be coming out in late spring. Usually the books, the first book came, TaRL came out in 2020.
So each book is taken about, it's usually nine to 10 months before the next one comes out. So yeah. So, okay. Yeah, I'm very excited. I'm so excited. Really fun. It's really fun. Yeah. And it's kind of a beautiful balance coming out of writing about the passages between worlds and death and, and [00:48:00] the gods and goddesses of the afterlife and seances and ghosts.
And the supernatural with Spirit Worlds now to be writing about you know, Griffins and dragons and mermaids and gorgons and, yeah. Yeah.
Amy: I. Someone in the chat wants to know, do you have a favorite? Can you choose between your children?
Jessica: Oh, no. They, they're all, they're all special in their own ways. They all have changed me personally and so many ways.
I've learned so much and every. Every book is this new amazing adventure. And I'm so, and they also, they're not just mine, so it's hard to choose because they are, they're each their own living community, you know, so they're each so special in their own way. Yeah. Yeah. I love all my babies. So
Amy: please, if you'll do me the honor of [00:49:00] vowing to come back next year so we can talk about Beast.
Yes. But also so we can talk about Sun Raw and Dennis Hopper and grand Bars. Amen. A whole history of the intersection between punk rock and witchcraft. Like rock. There's, there's a whole cauldron there that we haven't even stirred up the content. Heavy
Jessica: metal.
Amy: I have vme well. I mean the occult and heavy.
Oh, right. Alright. Alright. We could talk for another half hour about just what else we could talk about, but obviously you're super prolific and I need you to get back to your work so I can have another volume again. Thank you listeners. The newest volume is Spirit Worlds. Let me just tell you all the volumes to catch your ear.
Tarot, sacred Sites, astrology, plant magic, witchcraft, and of course, spirit Worlds all edited by our Jessica Huntley. I can't wait to [00:50:00] talk to you again. Thank you so much.
Jessica: Thank you so much, and thank you for everyone that came on the, the, the call to really appreciate it. And thank you. And yeah, I, I'm, I'm so thrilled to be here.
Thank you again.
Amy: I'll see you again next year.
Jessica: Yes,
Amy: absolutely. And as we always say, a blessed fucking be.
Jessica: Right on.
Intro: Be witch. Be witch. Be witch, witch, witch, witch. You must
Amy: be a witch. If you wanna support the Missing Witches project, join the coven and come hang out with us. Or by our books, new Moon Magic and Missing Witches, and our deck of Oracles, the Missing Witches Deck of Oracles.
Find everything you need to know@missingwitches.com.
