We're thrilled to be in circle with one of the greats of contemporary witchcraft, Judika Illes!! Together we talk about her books and decks, the magical origins of language and her personal witchcraft history, writing spells, the philosophy of divination, protection spells, the Hermit's lantern and the ringing of bells!!! Join us for A Reading for the Collective with Judika Illes and the MW Weavers!
Listen now, transcript below
Judika Illes is an independent scholar, educator, and author of several books of folklore, folkways, and mythology about the subjects of magic, the occult, divination, diverse spiritual traditions, witchcraft, and the paranormal.
OUT NOW!! From the bestselling author of The Encyclopedia of 5,000 Spells comes the ultimate toolkit for practicing the healing, transformative power of magic. In Magic Spells Oracle, 36 full-color cards offer clarity and inspiration to focus your intention and rebuild your power—with guidance through life, relationships, career, travel, and more. Reconnect with the essence of nature and rekindle the magic within with cards divided into the elements of Air, Earth, Fire, and Water. An accompanying guidebook outlines the framework for crafting your home altar and charging your oracle, reading and finding inspiration in the cards and their layouts, and connecting with your inner wisdom and deepening your magical practice. Discover the magic in everything—including you.
Also check out Protection Spells, another deck from Judika that came out this summer!
The world may be filled with dangers, but it is also filled with ancient and powerful forces that serve as antidotes and protective devices.
TRANSCRIPT
Judika: It's a
birthday.
Risa: it's a birthday.
Amy: birthday.
Risa: birthday.
Judika: you. I'm glad to be spending it with you.
Risa: Oh, we're so honored and delighted. What a tree it is. So cool to meet you.
Amy: much. I've just got like my like Judaica collection laid out here in
Judika: you.
Amy: preparation and excitement.
Risa: Here are our dear coven mates popping up. Hi everybody. Hi. Hi. You'll see our special guest Judika is here
and we're launching her new collection of Spells, her beautiful spell deck.
Congratulations con launch party.
Well let's take a deep breath and begin the way [00:01:00] we begin. Amy, do you wanna ease us in?
Amy: Ah.
Risa: Ah.
Amy: So monthly we gather on or around the full moon with our weaver circle, and we used to start with the lighting of a Kurt Vonnegut candle, which was a gift, and with a quote from Kurt Vonnegut. And we have a new candle, but I'm gonna save it for next month when we have a little more time to fuck around, because today we have such a special guest that I don't want to use any of that time with my goings on.
So I'm going to light this plain black candle and let's just all take this candle as an invitation to release our self-judgment, to release our judgment of others. To come into the circle where we know that [00:02:00] we can talk about magic without cynical eyes rolling at us, that we can be together in this space of magic if you have a candle lighted.
And when you look at its flame, know that we are in this together, that we are here to collaborate and never to compete again. I want to thank our guest tonight so much. I know so many of us are such huge fans. I have my little pile of your work here, ju come beside me and I'll probably pull a couple things out and ask you to talk about a couple of quotes. Meantime, let's party,
let's party.
Risa: Yes,
it's official listeners, cove mates. We have Juka Ellis with us, the author of the Encyclopedias, the tos, the [00:03:00] great books of spell casting, a gather of our stories and the ways that we have shored ourselves up. And made ourselves feel brave. A circle keeper. Juka, we're so honored to have you with us.
Judika: You are gonna make me cry in a nice
way.
Risa: Hmm. Welcome. We're so, so happy to have you here. I would love to know about this deck that launches into the world today. Listeners, if you're listening to this, it's available to you wherever you are now. It's the magic spells oracle. I wonder why or which spells felt like they needed to be in a deck, or why a deck now?
Judika: You know, this is a very good question and I wish I [00:04:00] had a more romantic answer for you, but I, my book, which is my third book, encyclopedia of 5,000 Spells, was published approximately 21 years ago. And. I, I, I have a complicated publishing history and you know, sometimes, you know, I publish for Harper Collins, I publish for various publishers. They don't always know what to do with metaphysical books, witchcraft books, comic books. And for 20 odd years they have been talking about using five thou. I mean, there's a reason the cover of Magic Spells Oracle resembles the original cover of 5,000 spells. You know, not, not extracting it, but using [00:05:00] it as a jumping off point, if that makes sense. And it took them, you know, 21 years and then all of a sudden in February they decided, look, we, we should do a deck and. They approached me and I, I wanted to do it, and it was done very, you know, they gave me sort of a concept of how many cards my, my editor there, who I liked very much, and who was, who was very genuine and very respectful. She wanted to divide the cards elementally. And it is very much that that elemental magic with two balancing cards is, is sort of the, the jumping off point for this deck and, which was really nice for me. I've been talking to people for the last couple [00:06:00] weeks about the stack and all these people have said to me how much they love that it's elemental, because that was their opening into the magical arts, into witchcraft.
But it wasn't my opening. I mean, it, it's something that I know and I, you can't. You can't cast spells without being aware of that. But it really wasn't my opening. But as I was writing it and as I was exploring it, it became very significant insightful to me and I, it left me wanting to write a bigger book on Elemental Magic. So who knows, maybe that's in the future. What were the spells that I wanted these spells to be spells that were accessible because 5,000 spells has a huge variety. There are spells that are very practical. There are spells that you can do spontaneously, and then there are spells that are very ritualistic and you have to prepare and maybe the ingredients are expensive, and I didn't want that.
I wanted this to be something that was [00:07:00] practical and that people could use and that would be accessible to somebody who was new and would. Help empower you and teach you and sort of lead you along that magical path. But that also would be interesting for people who have been doing this for a long time, you know, to have, because I, you know, same old Sam old gets so boring. And now there's some, you know, there's, so I, I was, you know, I, I am not a, I am, I am youthful in my heart, but I have been here for a while. I just turned 65 and when I, you know, back in the seventies, the eighties, you read whatever you could find. 'cause there wasn't a lot. So people will say, well, what did you read?
Well, I read what came across my path and I read everything. I think that was very common at that time. You were just so glad to have access to material, that you read it. And now it's the opposite. We're bombarded [00:08:00] and there's just this glut and there's so many books, and so many of them are so similar. And I'm not so sure that even the, all of them are written by people who've ever even cast a spell. You, you know. So I, I, I didn't, I didn't wanna do that. I didn't wanna fall into that. I want, I wanted it to be original, and I wanted it to be personal, and I wanted it to be, I have a, I have several planets in the six house, so that means anything to anybody. I wanted people to be able to use it. And so, you know, hopefully, hopefully that works.
Risa: We're going to use
it and I can't wait to do
Judika: I hope so.
Risa: We will, we'll, we'll call on those elements and open a circle and post some cards together. But go ahead. I wanna hear more about lineages.
Judika: well, you know, a lot of people sort of assume that there's this, this, this divide between, oh, here's [00:09:00] magic and the mystical arts and esoterica, and then there's the real world, and then there's the practical world. But that's not true. It's all, I mean, this is the real world that this, the magical arts are the real world. And I, I wanted them, I wanted that to be. So people are surprised sometimes. They think it's all gonna be very sort of cerebral and not like, I mean, I don't even know a word for it. Not usable, not doable, viable. But that, that's what I wanted this to be. I wanted this to be a practical thing that would be become a friend. Because I think cards are our allies and our friends and our, you know, our secret keepers and you, you know, and, and that's what I wanted this to be. And you can use it as an oracle deck. You can use it as, a magical resource as a magical tool. There's, you know, you can, you can cast spells with these cards, but you can also read them just like any other deck of [00:10:00] cards.
Risa: I would love to hear how
your approach to witchcraft has changed over the years.
Judika: I, I think it has deepened. How has it changed over the years? I, I think there was a very pivotal moment for me, and I think that as I speak with people, people tell me of similar experiences. I, I came into this incarnation in love with witchcraft and maybe it helped that I had a mother who also found her attractive, although she would not call herself a practitioner, although a couple of spouse and 5,000 spouse came from her. But, i, I have always loved witchcraft and all the trappings of witchcraft and witch are in witches. And you know, there was a [00:11:00] point where a lot of, you know, people call it aesthetic witch witchcraft. You know, if there's a beautiful full moon and I have a tree outside and maybe I'm gonna go dance around the tree later. And, you know, those sort of very romantic beautiful aspects of witchcraft were very, very attractive to me. And, you know, in 5,000 spells, the first spells that I included were these, oh, these beautiful poetic Moroccan spells. They're just so gorgeous. You know, and I love that kind of very visual, very, very. I mean, it's all magic, but the, there is a romantic aspect to it that I love. And then, you know, I hit a point in my life where I hit a crisis and I had a crisis that could not be solved by conventional means. So, you know, a lot of people [00:12:00] told me just to, you know, well, you know, this is, this is life and accept it. And I did not, and even though I had been practicing witchcraft and I was already in a coven and I was already, you know, I, I, I wasn't, I wasn't new to this, but I sort of thought, what the hell? I'm gonna find expel and I'm gonna cast it. Because worse comes to, you know, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen? The worst thing that's gonna happen is you're, you're gonna be left with your problem. There you are. But I decided to try it and it worked. And it worked. And that was a real changing point for me because I went from someone who loved, who loved witchcraft and loved engaging in it to somebody who was really everyday spellcaster. Somebody who was, who was, you know? Now, now it [00:13:00] became something that was part of my life and I took it very seriously, and I've never turned back from that. And I, I hear that from a lot of other people. And that's not a criticism. This, there's sort of no right way or wrong way to do this. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with, you know, dressing up like sneaky necks and dancing under the moonlight.
You know, if it, if it brings you joy and empowerment, there is nothing wrong with that. So, you know, people sometimes trivialize that, but. but. you know, you, you are tuning into the universe and tuning into your power. And there's absolutely, and you know, and maybe you have a life where you don't have a crisis that needs a magical solution. But for those of us who have had those situations, it, it is, it is like being struck by lightning it in a good way. It is that, that experience where you, you know what the hell, I'm gonna try this. And it works and it works [00:14:00] really well, maybe better than anticipated. It, it is, it is a phenomenal experience and I don't think this's going back through that. So I, I, I would say that's the biggest change. I, you know, when I wrote my first book, which was, which ironically it's gone through four editions. It was originally Earth Mother Magic. It's now the wiser classic edition of Pure Magic. When I wrote that book, which I wrote like in 1999, although it didn't, it wasn't published until about 2001. I I didn't think anybody was gonna read it. I honestly didn't think anybody was gonna read it. I you know, I used my real name because I, I didn't think I needed to have an alias. A lot of witchcraft writers have aliases, and a lot of, they're, they're undetectable aliases because they're names like, you know, Jane Smith or something.
They look like a real name, but they're, that's not, [00:15:00] I used my real name because I didn't think I had any, I, I didn't think anybody was gonna read my book. I, I had an opportunity to write one and I really wanted to write it, so I did. And then, you know, I have, I, I have an accent on my last name, my last name on the E, but my editor at the time told me she didn't think Americans could handle accent marks. And I said, okay, whatever. So you'll see if I sign a book, I, I almost always sign up with the accent. It looks like I'm just, you know, people think I'm just like, I don't know, scribbling. But, but there is actually an accent mark there. But you, you know, I wasn't gonna argue with her because I just thought I was so lucky to be published.
If you had told me then that, that book would be considered a classic, I would've laughed. I mean, it, it, it was unbelievable. I, I think that over the years I have become more confident and I have become more, more open in how I talk about witchcraft. And, you know, time will. The more time you spend [00:16:00] on, on spell casting and on practicing. And it is worth practicing it even if you don't have a crisis because it's, you know, it, it's, it's good to have your muscles, it's good to have your skills for just in case you do have something in the future. But I, I used to be very, very discreet about it. I don't apologize for anything anymore. You know, I don't, you know, I'm very upfront.
I'm very frank about it. I, I wrote, and this is true, the Witches Almanac put out an addition of raia, the, the gospel of the wishes. And there are many, there are many editions of that book, but you know, it's the public domain. But this is the Witches Almanac edition. And what they did to differentiate it is they brought in different authors to write essays about it. Myself and I, Lori Bruno, and all sorts of people, [00:17:00] and I wrote about the experience of of of, you know, if I am in the mood to reduce a room to silence, this is what I have learned to do. You know, you, you go into a social situation and you know, everybody's talking about what do you do? What do you do? Who are you, what do you do?
Oh, oh, you're a teacher. Oh, you're a real estate broker. Oh, you're this, oh, you're, you're a surgeon. How wonderful. And I say, I'm a fortune tolerant. And you can hear a rum inevitably because they start looking at me. 'cause they cannot tell, am I serious? Is this a joke? Are they supposed to be laughing and you No, I, I I, I, I have no shame.
I am a fortune teller. I read cards. I, I don't even, I don't, I don't object to the. You know, the terminology, there's a long, long lineage of fortune tellers, and I am honored to be among them. You know, I can call myself other things also, [00:18:00] but, you know, but that will just, it will silence a room. And I, I kind of enjoy that now. So I, I think, I think I have changed my, my magic maybe has developed more. I, I have a day job. I'm an editor of Wiser Books, and so I, I, I read a lot of other people's work and some of it is really wonderful. I just edited a book by Nicholas Pearson called The Witching Stones, and it, it was so interesting and it really did. I, I, you know, all these things that you add to my practice and the wonderful thing about the magical Arts is you can keep, you know, you never stop. You can keep learning and expanding and evolving, you know, and as, as long as you're capable of doing so.
Amy: I have kind of a two part question that is, is related to this. 'cause many, many [00:19:00] people, many witches, many fortune tellers do magic and do spells but don't feel compelled to make books. I wanna read a quote from you.
Judika: Oh.
Amy: No, it's like, it's, it's, I, I carry it in my heart. You wrote, not only are magical texts among the oldest surviving pieces of literature, but many scholars and anthropologists suggest it was the need to record spells and divination results that stimulated the very birth of writing.
So, can you like, expand on that idea and also how you see your books fitting into that tradition?
Judika: Oh yeah, I, I mean that, that's based on anthropology and archeology, that that's not, that's not even particularly a controversial thing. You know, people are ambivalent about magic. [00:20:00] I, my kids like to watch these para or these streaming paranormal shows, and occasionally I watch with them. I was watching something with them last night and it was really interesting. And half of the program was on this really interesting paranormal thing, and the other half of it, which happened like a hundred years ago. And the other half of it was the host who clearly is into this because he, you know, he spent a lot of time like researching this and presenting it and, you know, there was art. And then he spent the second half of the show explaining why maybe it wasn't paranormal. Maybe it was like a massive hypnotism. Maybe it was this, maybe it was that. It's like, you know, he's telling people a hundred, a hundred years ago what he thinks it is. He wasn't there. You know, this is what they said they experienced.
You can, you can say that it, whatever, but this is what they wrote and said multiple people. And so, I mean, what I'm saying [00:21:00] are facts, but sometimes people don't encourage the transmission of these facts. The earliest documented writing we have, we have in Sumaria, in Mesopotamia. We have there they are of two sources. There are lists of prophecies because if you have a prophecy, you know, you have to remember what it is. If only. So if it doesn't come true, the ruler can go and like find the prophet a year later and punish them. But recordings of prophecies, there is recordings of I think crystals and gemstones and what, you know, what they're used for recording.
There's some recordings of spells. The other thing that comes from that time are taxes. And so if you're looking for the absolute most ancient writings, it's magic and taxes. And I mean that, that, that still, if you you know, going [00:22:00] over to China, one of the earliest forms of divination was they would heat up turtle shells and the interpret the cracks. Because if you're a diviner, you know, you can interpret anything. You know, once, once you can actually, it, it's the process of divination that you have to learn. It, it not so much, you know, you might have a form, one person might like cards, one person might like rooms, someone else likes casting, you know, or whatever it is. But it's the actual act of di divine that is the art. And so, I mean, we know that this is like the, the birth of the alphabet. There's a very interesting book, and it, I have some caveats about it by it's Leonard Slain, a book called the the Goddess of the Alphabet and Leonard Lane's premise is that as people became [00:23:00] literate, they became more patriarchal versus not, not, it's not about being illiterate, it's about being non-literate. How culture changes. And he goes through various different cultures and he does, he does talk about this transition and, and literacy and how often the earliest forms have to do with shamanism and prophecies and magic. And so I mean that is, that is there from the start recording that knowledge, how I fit into that lineage. You know, I didn't set out to become a metaphysical writer. That is not what I wanted to do initially. That was something that was very personal for me. You know, I started collecting spells, the spells that became 5,000 spells. But I did it because I thought it was interesting. And I was just doing it for myself. [00:24:00] But I had an opportunity, well the, I had an opportunity to publish my first book and I wanted to do it because I am very aware. Of how for centuries and millennia magical practitioners have been persecuted and how the knowledge has been suppressed. In my book, encyclopedia of Witchcraft, I have a section about books that we cannot read. We cannot read these books because they were destroyed. You know, the, the, the sibling prophecies, the various, I mean, these are documented books that existed and now we cannot read them. And that bothers me. 'cause, you know, as soon as somebody bans a book, I buy a copy. I, I, I can't help it. That, that's my personality. I just, you know, you tell me I can't, I can't read something. I, I wanna know what you think. I shouldn't know. [00:25:00] So I, the, but it was easier a century ago or two. And, and, you know. The last Gerald Gardner and Dion Fortune, they wrote their first books as novels because it was illegal to write a book that put witchcraft in a practical positive light. So I could not, before the 1950s, I could not in the United States, I don't know about Canada, but the uni. But although I would imagine they would've, the British laws in the United States practical books on the magical arts, if you mailed them, they, it was, it was postal fraud because it was considered a scam. So there were all these things preventing people from reading and writing this, you know, documenting this knowledge. But a couple hundred years ago, books were often handwritten and maybe there were only two or three copies, and maybe those [00:26:00] copies weren't even identical, and you could burn those books. We don't even know. Apparently there's this, there's a hoard in the Vatican. We don't even know what they have. I, maybe they don't even know what they have at this point. But, but, but there's stuff there that, that I can't read. I am not, I, it is not available to me. And then even when printing came about, they were printing in small numbers. But now, if you have a book published by a publisher, you know, and I work for a small publisher, every book, there's at least 4,000 copies published, 4,000 copies that are sold worldwide and that are mailed. Those books will never, that, that knowledge will never be entirely destroyed. People tell me, I, I treasure this.
Someone told me they sent a care package to their kids in the Peace Corps in Tanzania, and they put my books in [00:27:00] there. So my books are floating around Tanzania. People tell me, oh, I saw I saw your book in the airport at Dubai. I, I, I saw your book here. I saw your book there. And so even if things are made illegal, they will never be able to destroy every single copy of a modern published book now. And that I, I was very conscious of that when I was writing, when I started writing my spell books, because I am documenting information that cannot be destroyed, and so much has been destroyed. So I feel very lucky to be able to do that.
Amy: I think we're all still mourning the library of Alexandria. I think about it like way more than I should,
Judika: yeah. And, and, and, you know, not just Alexandria. I mean, there are libraries on, you know I'm told in [00:28:00] Persia and, you know, Genghis Khan and, you know, I was burnt. So we, we don't even know what we don't know. So we, we know what we don't know, but then there's even more, we don't, we, we don't know it to the extent that we don't even know.
We don't know it.
Risa: But now here we are
Judika: No, I suppose people ask me, you know, 5,000 spells because some of the spells are practical and some of them are very much not practical. But I, I wanted to document those also because I, I just, I wanted, I wanted them to be there so that people could read about them and know, you know, you know, allegedly these things existed, you know, be, I mean, 'cause some of them were sort of. It is. There are spells that it's hard to believe that anybody actually cast, but maybe they did. Who knows? They say they did.[00:29:00]
Risa: I think it's hard not to be so, aware right now of the moment that we meet in the moment that we're in circle in that our knowledge and people are deeply in danger in the United States and around the world. And so all the more urgent for us to be together and to celebrate and to celebrate spells coming to us in the form that we can keep close to us, like in this precious deck that you've made.
And so I want to open a circle now for divination. I would invite the weavers who are here with us, the circle, within the circle of our coven spell casters, activists, artists, weaving at the [00:30:00] very heart of our community. If you have a deck with you or a divination tool, and I don't know, jua, if you always call a circle before you pull cards, but no,
Judika: no, but
also, you know, I actually pe people write to me, and actually thank me for saying this because it, it is very much the norm to cast a circle in the west
Risa: hmm.
Judika: and by the west, I mean, north America, Northern Europe, Western Europe. But I, I am, you know, the first person in my lineage to be born in North America. And when you get to Eastern Europe, they don't cast circles. It's, it's not customary. I mean, they, they will do [00:31:00] other kind of things. So, I mean, I have cast circles. I, you know, I have a coven and we have cast circles, but it, but it is not my personal practice. And I mean, I, I'm gonna be honest, I did, I did warm up. I shuffled my cards. I did a little ritual myself before I signed on with you.
I, I come prepared.
Risa: She comes with her cloak already on, metaphorically speaking. I had to take mine off due to a hot flash immediately before you guys joined. I, I literally gorgeous us. We call circles in different ways in our coven. We play, it's part of how we practice. Different members have written different beautiful versions.
Sometimes we all [00:32:00] unmute and call out associations. Recently we called them out and all applauded enthusiastically for each one. It was really joyful. But when Amy and I first started to practice, it was very much in a spirit of play and art. We called in the simplest possible version, and I've gone back to that a lot recently when I feel totally overwhelmed when I just want to make a simple space around myself.
So I invite you to unmute if it feels comfortable with you. And whisper or mutter, or yell this to yourself and to us and out to the world before we pull cards for what we can offer the broader world at this time, at the sitting of the veil, when this message will be shared, it goes like this, north, south, east, west, [00:33:00] earth, air, fire, water, north, south, east, west, earth, air, fire, water, north, south, east, west, earth, air, fire, water, north, south, east, west, earth, air, fire, water, north, south, east, west, earth, air,
Vermillion: east,
Risa: fire, water,
Vermillion: air,
Risa: southeast,
Amy: east, west, or
Vermillion: south,
Nicole: fire, water,
Vermillion: earth,
air, fire, water.
Judika: I love Thanks everyone. Juka, will you pull a card
Risa: for us?
Judika: to someone. I have the cards here and they're all shuffled up. Does somebody wanna help me pick the card or do you have a number I should pick?
Risa: I guess my thought was to simply [00:34:00] pull a on in response to the question at first, just what do we need now? And so I would invite everyone to just pull one card to start and then
Judika: I'm gonna pull the bottom card. What do we
need now? Because that's the base. And so that's the front of the card. And, oh, look at this, the card is the element of fire and it's the lamp. Ah, we need illumination. And we need vitality. And we need, we need to keep our, our hopes and our heart strong and up and not to, you know, not, not to lose our light, not to lose our vision, but you know, it's that lamp.
I always think of the, the hermit. From the tarot, and that's sometimes a very lonely position to walk with the lamp. But we are [00:35:00] illuminating a path and we're illuminating it for the people behind us as well as for ourselves. And I, I, I would say we are certainly a need of elimination.
Risa: And
I wonder. Your expertise as a reader? What is the question behind that question? Or what is the next logical question, do you think?
Judika: Tell me the first question again.
Risa: Just what do we need to know now?
Judika: we need to know and now that we need, now that we know what we need to know, how do we accomplish that?
Risa: Hmm.
Judika: So I'm gonna pull the next card. You know, it's the Full Moon and Aries tonight. These cards are well shuffled, but we have two fire cards here. This is there [00:36:00] is a, a, a gemstone card for each of the elements of this is the ruby and rubies are traditionally about, you know, they, they fortify, they fortify your health, they fortify your will. And I think this is an intunement with this full moon in Aries. It's a fire moon. And it is, I've been reading all this is astrological. I mean, I, this isn't just me, this is, I've been reading the last couple days of various astrologers and we need to know about this moon. And people are saying we're still, we will still be in the eclipse season for a little bit longer.
I, various astrologers are saying, I I wanna say October 20th before we really pass through this eclipse season, which I have found very profound. This particular season, and I, I think it is a, a good time for new [00:37:00] beginnings. A good time to not recreate maybe, but to, if you are not happy or not entirely content with yourself, with your life, with your goals, with your accomplishments.
We know what are you doing every day, and does it, does it bring you joy and empowerment? And are you, you, know, do, do you feel that you're a force, a beneficial force? This is a good time to reevaluate and to have that opportunity. Tina, step into the threshold. Aries is the first sign step into the threshold of who are you now? Like we don't have to. You know, every day is a new opportunity, a new portal to become more of who we should be or we wanna be, or you know what, you know, we come [00:38:00] into this world, you look at your natal chart and you have potential and challenges and then and desires. You know what, I know what I wanted to be when I was four, you know, who I wanted to be as an adult. And you know, I mean, my thing about telling people I wanna be a fortune teller, I told that to people when I was four and it did not reduce the room to silence. I think I got hit in the head a couple times. But you know, you have the opportunity that the Aries Moon guides you to have that opportunity to start fresh because. Life comes around and influences us teachers and parents and people we need and circumstances and all these things. Sometimes we, we, we lose. We lose who we are. We lose who we, we wish to be, but other people come. I, I always tell people, you know, those words are [00:39:00] so magical, just to be careful when people come and like, they sort of point you, you know, you are this kind of a person.
Even if it's good, you are smart, you know, you're smart, you're dumb, you're this, you're that, that is in a way, a little bit of a form of a curse. You have it, it's up to you to say, I am, I am this kind of a person. And you can change your mind and say, tomorrow, you know what, I, I made a mistake and I'm actually this kind of a person as opposed to having other people tell you who you are.
And I think the Ari Moon enables us. To it, it just, it makes it easier with the Aries mode, those air, those Aryan energies are, are helping us emerge into our lives. And, you know, the illumination to, to look into yourself, to highlight who, who are you? and and where do you wanna, where [00:40:00] do you wanna go? Who do you wanna be? Who is the real you that maybe has been suppressed and, and you know, it suppressed with love. Sometimes people, they want the best for you or they're afraid for you, or they have whatever reason. So it's, it's not necessarily a malicious thing. They, it, it might be a well-meaning thing, but it can still be a crippling thing. So I, I think this is, you know, I, I wasn't kidding when I said I, I plan to later go out and, you know, visit my tree. Take a look at the commune with the moon. It is a good time to maybe have some affirmations and, you know, those are magical also. And, and where do you wanna be next year or where do you want your surroundings to, you know, you know, the world is a very big place.
I mean, I could say you want, where do you want the world to be? But the world is [00:41:00] that, that is very inclusive of a lot of territory. But maybe specifically, you know, you may, you may have a coven or you have a community, or you have a relationship, whereas, you know, something that you can really see a, you know, where, what do you want it to be the next time we have a full moon in Aries.
Amy: Speaking of
seeing things the way you want to see them. Can you talk briefly or, or longly about, about the artwork on the cards, bringing your, your verbal ideas into
Judika: I am not an I wish I was an artist. I wish I, I had designed them, but I did not. I I, I saw on the website that you did something for Rachel Pollock recently and, you know, I was Rachel Pollock's, her, her editor, wiser Books. And it's, it's one of the treasures of my life that I was able to work with Rachel and [00:42:00] she did the art you know, I worked with her, you know, before she passed on The Shining Tribe Tarot. And that was her artwork. And she, you know, was also, you know, she came into that where she wasn't necessarily an artist, but she could see, she could see what those cards should look like. And I know that in the beginning when she was first working as she was working on the deck many years ago, other artists didn't quite capture her vision. She, you know, and they're beautiful. The, you know, we restored that deck had been published previously, but she had not been happy with colors and so we restored it to her vision. And so, you know, in this particular case, I mean this is an interesting deck to work on. 'cause there's a collaboration between two publishers. My two publishers, which is Rare, Harper Collins, which [00:43:00] publish, you know, publishes my large encyclopedias and then wiser books where I work and where I publish my smaller books. And the creative director, Catherine Skypak and I, I mean we are, you know, she's my partner in crime and she, so the art was, was, was partly my direction, partly Catherine and partly the art de department at Harper Custom in, in London. So it was sort of a combination of all of us. But I like collaboration, I like working with. So that's, I, I had veto rights and everything.
Risa: I like collaboration with veto rights too.
Judika: Yeah. Yeah.
Risa: But speaking of collaboration, I would love to hear from other weavers who are here, what cards you pulled for those same two questions. And Judah, I thought it was so interesting you were talking about [00:44:00] the urgency or possibility of us reinventing ourselves, of us putting down titles or boxes or structures that have been put on us.
We, it's so important to us, this, this Alan Watts quote. We say it all the time in the coven, you're under no obligation to be the person you were five minutes ago.
Judika: I
love that quote.
Risa: And, so we always invite each other to reintroduce ourselves, whoever you are today. And so co mates, if you're gonna share a card, I invite you to reintroduce yourself to Jua and to the listeners, share whatever.
Name or piece feels useful to briefly share and then share your reading. You can use the raise hand or go for it. Read. I saw you pull cards.
Speaker 3: I was trying to wait. I I am a, I am a fire sign. Fire sign, [00:45:00] air sign. So I felt right at home whenever you pulled those cards. Juka, thank you for being here. My name is Reid. Today I am. Someone who is doing my best with everything that is happening in the larger world and in my world personally.
And I'm really grateful to be here. And today I'm a witch. I am a witch. I have been leaning into my witchcraft and just, I am walking around cloak right behind me. I'm a witch. So the cards I always I use a pendulum. I use jumpers. I love the rider weight. Just for whatever reason though, that imagery and my ancestors never just pop out one card.
So I will bring them together and like, I'm sure people can read them together, but the three that popped out for, [00:46:00] what do we need now was the nine of ones. I think we all need a nap. And then strength. We all need strength, but then put in the page of cups and you know, like a new way of loving.
That's something that's been for me lately, like figuring out how to be, how to lead heart forward and to lead with love. Heard it for years, still trying to get it. And then how do we accomplish this? We accomplish this through death, through letting things die, through letting them go. That is how. I can't mirror.
That is how we get a new work. That is how our new work begins as through death. And I write and research about women who have loved Christianity to practice witchcraft. And one of, and I'm a former clergy member. And one of the things that always drove me crazy about being in the church, and I'll say this and let it [00:47:00] go is that for an institution that preaches resurrection, they sure are afraid of death.
Like white knuckled, gripping, holding on so that their way won't die 'cause they don't believe in resurrection. And that's all I have to say about that. Thank you for letting me participate.
Risa: For million. I would love to hear from
you. So nice to have you here.
Vermillion: Right.
Can you hear me?
Risa: Yep.
Vermillion: All right. Wonderful. I'm Vermilion and I am a blind brown person who is super [00:48:00] excited to get to be here tonight. And the card that I chose for, what do we need right now, and it's definitely the message that I needed right now, but I I got the chariot which makes sense because it's a card of tenacity and willpower and like just continuing on like that forward momentum that, that drive.
And even if that forward momentum is, you know, productive rest, you know, like Reid was saying, like taking a nap. Like you wouldn't necessarily think that that, you know, could be interpreted as going forward, but like honestly, I do think that is an integral part of what it looks like to be able to keep going.
Like if you have no gas in the tank, like there's no forward momentum. So it's [00:49:00] all sacred.
Risa: I took a deep breath
as you said that, did you pull a card for how we achieve it?
Vermillion: I did not, 'cause I thought that we were only pulling one,
Risa: Yeah. Well then maybe you just pulled the, the only one we needed.
Judika: Know, we
accomplished so much during sleep.
Risa: Hmm.
Judika: you know, it's sort of very judgmental. Oh, you're sleeping, you're not doing anything. But there's all this, you know, on the physical level, there's all this research about, you know, cellular regeneration and what's going on in your body when you're sleeping.
It's very interesting not to mention dreaming. So if, if you can't, you need to sleep. I, I think that was. That was very profound.[00:50:00]
Risa: Katie, I would love to hear
what you think of the cards you pulled.
Katie: Okay. Can you hear me
Risa: Yeah. And we see your tree. We
see your tree Companion.
Katie: Yeah. Yeah, I'm wearing headphones, like Bluetooth headphones and I've never talked with them on before and they're too big for my ears. My ear holes are smaller than somebody else's headphones that are in my ears. So I'm using the Wild Unknown Deck by Kim Cran and I pulled the father of Wand and so fire fire card.
Fire and Spirit. And for what we need to know now, I'm, I'm still, I, I didn't really, I haven't really thought on what this card means in that, in reference to that question. So father or king, right. So she uses like the, like a familial [00:51:00] thing but I like that it's a serpent and has like a lightning bolt and. Well, it's a cobra and it's like coiled around the, the wand. So yeah, I don't know, I have to say with it and I'm totally open to anybody else's thing with it. But then the next card that I pulled, I pulled a card and then a card jumped out. So I had to use the jump out card because those usually are like significant.
The card I pulled was the Ace of Cups, like, so, like new, new Beginnings. I like in the, you know, realm of water, love, emotion. But the card that jumped was the star. The Card of Hope. I love this card. And so I was kind of like, 'cause it was like, well, what do we need now? Okay, well we need, you know, we need like an, I don't know, like a new, if I look at this in, I, I don't like to look at things in terms of [00:52:00] like politics and, and leadership and whatnot, because I kind of hate all those things. But if I do, I am, maybe this is representing not like a person, but just like a vibe. And yeah. And then, and, and then I feel like this is sort of this combined with like a new, like a new beginning, like a new way of being, like we're love and empathy are sort of at the center and we're, and we have to have hope because Yeah, otherwise we can just give up because that's, that's easy. And I feel like that's sort of what. You know, people want like the powers that be like want people to do, they want people to be overwhelmed and in fight and then just like give up and lay down and not, not fight, but maybe we don't fight with the same sort of like, you know, weapons of mass destruction sort of thing.
We fight by holding each other up.[00:53:00]
Amy: Talk to us for a minute about the Power of Hope.
Judika: Oh, you know, it's one of my favorite cards too, and I, I love that it comes after the tower because after the, you know, if you think about it, and I love the writer Wait, Smith cards also. They are, they are my, I i, I love a lot of cards, but those are my old dependable, and you know, you see the people blown out of the tower and the foundations, you know, just destroyed.
And where are you when that happens? You know, that it looks like everybody's gone. But in fact, the very next card. The star, we can see this, you know, I was think she has no clothes because they've been blown off and it is this fresh beginning and this beautiful garden. The tower is gone and we are back.
We are back to the beginning and we have hope. And we don't have hope. I mean, [00:54:00] then what is existence with no hope? You know, and I, I think that even from a magical perspective, I, I get asked a lot of questions like, do you have to believe in a spell for it to work? And no, absolutely not. Like do you have to believe in an aspira?
No. I mean, it's gonna work or it's not gonna work, or it has nothing to do with your belief. But the one thing you do have to believe with the spell, I think I know, is that it is possible, it is potentially possible that maybe life could get a little bit better. Because if you don't have that hope, if you are invested in, well, this is it. Everything is terrible. Everything is shit. Nothing's ever getting better. You, it's like driving with your parking brakes on your spell is not gonna work because then you're, you have to sort of prove to yourself that you're wrong. And that's, that's [00:55:00] a, a dangerous place to be. But yeah, absolutely hope is, hope is, is, is a requirement. I, I, I think for us to have any kind of a positive existence because, you know, cross pretty bad out there. And if, if this is it, if this is as good as it gets y you know, why are we here then? And, you know, you, you know, it is just we need them. That I, I, I mean, I, I, I am really enjoying. These cars. I think the, I think they're all what we've had, they're so on target. I, I don't, you know, but that I, the star is such an important card, I think, because that opportunity Yes, there's been a disaster. Yes. Terrible things have happened. Yes. Our plans did not work out as we wanted. Yes. This thing happened [00:56:00] unexpectedly and now we have an opportunity to regroup, to start again. And from a fresh perspective, we, we don't, you know, that tower's gone. We, so we, we don't have to like, get a construction crew and try to piece it back together because it's gone. We, we can do whatever we want now.
Risa: We can do whatever we want now.
Judika: We can try.
Risa: Yeah. Melissa, I'd love to hear the cards you pulled.
Melissa: Hello. So first I got the hermit and I have been playing around with the desert illumination deck. So a lot of southwestern iconography and it's just been like trying to heal my, I'm an American wound, trying to find some things in our culture I still think are cool. And this [00:57:00] deck is amazing, but it's a lonesome cowboy out person, the beautiful moon.
We've worked a lot with the hermit this year, and for me, one of the things I took. From the hermit is that like, it's not just about isolation, it's about fucking off to that cave for a little bit to do what you need to do so that you can light the path for others. And I think I used to see it as more imbalanced as that.
And for me, this has been one of the most, like physically isolating times of my life, but I have never been held more in community. So again, I'm in a cave. I literally look like I'm in a fucking cave tonight. But like, you know what I mean? Like I the wisdom of this group to me, the star that's also in the traditional lantern, it all kind of ties back.
I'm also an atheist [00:58:00] dietist, who's really into hete. So of course the torch had to come up tonight. So thank you. What the hell do we do with it? So WANs in this deck are chilies. It's just so fucking cool. So first was nine worms
and then the ace of ones or chiles. And to me, I mean fire on, fire on fire baby. How do we take this energy that is so fiery and passionate and not burn it out, right? Like, I like spicy food, but if I don't do the right things before and after, I can sometimes pay the price for it. And for me it's like the same thing where it's like we're gonna get high as hell off of the endorphins of what comes next, but how do we not like lose that joy, that [00:59:00] softness?
How do we take this potential that is the seeds and like have patience. And like, how do we balance the warmth and also the times where it gets a little dark. And for me too, the nine of chilies in this deck, we've already endured a lot. And I think the word resilient is kind of like lost a little bit of its value, but to me, resilient is quiet.
And it's a quiet strength that witches women, fems queers, the empathetic beautiful souls that I get to spend time with this coven. Like, we're resilient as fuck, and we should also take a moment and hold each other in that. And that is the hope [01:00:00] for me, is that like I'm not alone in this. You were one of the first books I ever bought in witchcraft, and I got away with it because of the way that cover was designed, because my mom was like, oh, botanical.
Then my mom got into it. It was cool. We're all cool now, but thank you so much for all of your work. You, you have given me a structure and taught me that the research is so much more important than even the convoluted craft sometimes, because
Judika: Oh, the research sacred. That is sacred.
Melissa: me. Yeah. That Thank you.
Judika: I thank you.
Risa: Juka,
I'd love to hear if you had any thoughts about the cards that were pulled, especially coming back to that lantern you pulled for us.
Judika: I have to say I've never seen that desert illuminations deck before, and I'm gonna go and get a deck. 'cause that is gorgeous. And I, I love chili peppers myself. So [01:01:00] that is, I, I I love that. Oh, I, you know, I think it's interesting because I think a lot of the cards were complimentary tonight. You know, I said, you know, that that lantern always reminds me of the hermit and that the hermit appeared. So I, you know, the, and of course the moon is a lantern, you know, the obvious, the, the, the moon itself is a lantern illuminating us.
And I, I was actually thinking, how do we get from. Lantern to the ruby and the lantern throws a light that is illuminates a path for many. And of course, you know, we're all looking up at the same moon, and the ruby is more personal because Ruby is also, you know, a fine ruby. It, it, it is, it has light. And so I think [01:02:00] taking, taking that lunar energy, and this is a fire mode, that fiery lunar energy and bringing it down to the personal and maybe to, I, I will tell you what I am doing, if this is maybe helpful for anyone. I mean, I, I am genuinely, and I say it because I mean, I, I, I know too much about a lot of authors. I, I am genuinely a practitioner. It is what I do every day. But I am a solitary practitioner at this time in my life. I have had a coven, but unfortunately, you know, as you get older, you lose people.
So I, I have become a, a much more solitary practitioner and I do a lot of visualizations for myself, and I think I will visualize it. I mean, and I mean, that's personal. I, I was born in July in the Ruby is my birthstone. But to take, to, to envision that lunar energy [01:03:00] coming down into myself the way, you know, drawing down the moon, but on, on a very simple personal level and maybe creating some sort of a talisman for myself, even if it is not a actual physical talisman. But y you know, a a a, a visualized talisman, a visualized amulet, something that will bring the light because there's a lot of darkness. I mean, and I, I, I'm not even negative about darkness because I, I like the night and I, I find that I have good night vision and I, I, I like walking around in the dark.
That's not, that's not a problem for me, but I also love the light. So finding that balance between the little bit of light and the darkness, you know, the dark and the, there's, there's that contrast in that balance. I like that. So that is what I think. But I think [01:04:00] we, we do need that elimination. There's just so much misinformation and challenges, and it's very easy to get disheartened, you know, it's very easy to lose hope, and I think that's a very natural thing, and you can lose hope for a short amount of time that you, you can't lose hope entirely for too long, because then you, it just, you fall into depression and you can't. You can't accomplish, you can't accomplish your goals, you can't accomplish your magic. So that's really the, the little light that you have to protect. I don't know if anybody has read, they made a terrible, terrible animated movie out of it. It's just awful. But there is a, a modern fairytale called The Princess and the Goblin, it, it's, it's, it's presented as a, as a book for children, but it, it, [01:05:00] it's actually was written as sort of a spiritual work.
And there is a little princess in a castle who, in her explorations of the castle, goes to a turret where she discovers this ancient woman spinning who is, or who is tells her that she is her. You know, many times grandmother that, you know, she's, she's a goddess and nobody else in the castle knows she's there. But she's very helpful to this little girl and she gives her a silver thread. Only she's weaving this, the silver thread, and only she can see, only the little princess can see it. And when there is a crisis, her, you know, ancient grandmother tells her you have to follow the thread. And she has this lunar silver thread and she follows the thread. And no people, people mock her because no one else can see it, feel it. But, but she can. And she has [01:06:00] faith in herself. And at some point, like the thread leads her like to rocks, it sort of dead, dead ends. But then she moves the rocks and goes into these caves and it, it is the, the ability to apprehend and know that you have the sacred silver thread and the ability to follow it. And she does a lot of good. She's the heroine of the story. And she does it by, by following that silver thread that no one else can see. And I, I, I always think that's an elimination, a lunar, that silver, the, the lunar, you know, the, the goddess, no one else can see the thread. No one else can see the, the danger that no one else can see.
But, but she fixes it. And I, I think that's what the, what that lantern reminds me of, you know, our inner lanterns, the, you know, our lunar inspired inner lanterns.
Amy: I want to spotlight another one of your [01:07:00] projects momentarily. I'm holding this up. This is, it's another deck from Jua and it's not an Oracle deck. It's sort of, it's, it's a, a,
Judika: It's a weird little jack.
Amy: It's wonderful. All of the cards have a protection spell on them. And so for me it has been like anti-anxiety medication.
If I'm having one of those moments where I feel like I need protected from whatever force is causing this fear, this stomach churning and sometimes I don't even do the spell honestly. Sometimes just pulling the card and reading the spell and meditating on it is enough to give me that feeling and that and that
Judika: I'm so glad. Thank you.
Amy: Yeah. Please tell, tell us more.
Judika: Oh, you know, I, I've been telling people, you know, I worked really hard to get published. I really wanted to get published. I have a lot of rejections, so, you know, I, I, it took me a long time to get [01:08:00] published. But these decks, 2025, I, I mean, I joke, I woke up one morning and I was a deck creator. Wiser Books has a series of mini decks. They're, they're little decks. See, this is the other deck, which is a sort of a normal sized deck. It's a tiny little deck. It's very inexpensive. I don't know what they're only for. In Canada and the US it's 1295, the list price and 36 protection cards. And there are people who use it as an oracle deck.
This, this deck could be a lot of things. There are people who use it as an oracle deck. The Catherine Sky Pack. Talk me into this. I mean, she didn't have to talk me. I love snakes and I love moons and there are tons of snakes and moons. And so she showed me the snakes of the moons and I said, you know, sign me up. And they're, they're not all the same. Like the backs of the cards are not all the same. And so there are people who use it as an oracle. [01:09:00] There are people who use it. It's, it's an unbound book that will teach you about protection magic. I love, I love that anti-anxiety medication. I, I don't know if people know Elisa Einhorn, she's an author.
I am editing her. Book Tarot of the Unconscious right now. Elisa went back to school to be an analyst and discovered further insights into her career as a tarot card reader. And she's got some videos up. She, she's been reading the fronts of the cards and I, it's amazing. You know, where are the snakes looking?
What kind of snakes, what are they doing? How many moons? So I, I have had so much fun with this. I mean, it is kind of, you know, this is the reinvention. I am 65 years old and all of a sudden I became a decorator. Like I, I, I wasn't a debt creator five years ago, but here I am. So, you know, don't, don't give up hope you don't [01:10:00] know where you'll be in fight.
And it makes me, I love cards, so this makes me really, really happy. And I, I love the people I work with, so and. I have no control over this, but it makes me very happy that they're, these are reasonably priced cards because I have had people tell me that they, they leave these cards like in ladies rooms because they leave it like, in like coffee shops.
They'll leave a card because somebody needs that card. And you can do that with a 1295 check. Or if you want to actually use the card in a spell. Cards have gotten so expensive, ridiculously expensive, they didn't used to be. And so like, you know, now if you wanna use a card and a spell, like in a candle spell, we [01:11:00] recommend, you know, you should make a copy of the card and then you have to trim it and then you have to do this or that.
But you know, you can, you can lose a card and get another deck. It, it, it is a reasonably priced enough that you can do it. There is no book with this. All the text is, it's actually, it's a no frills. It's actually on the cards. People tell me that they use it for travel, for travel security because, you know, you find yourself in a hostel or a hotel room, or you know, staying in someone's house and you're nervous, and so they pull out a card and it just, even if it is not exactly their situation and might give them a guidance, a direction as to what will, what will make them a little bit more, feel, feel better, feel more secure.
Sometimes you just, you know, there's something going on and you don't know what it is. And so this will give you a direction.
Risa: Will
you pull a [01:12:00] protection spell for us to end the recorded piece of this circle, and let's ask for protection because we will share this circle for Halloween. SA Souls. So what do we need for protection as the veil
Judika: somebody wanna pull a card? Should I pick one from the top? The bottom.
Risa: you shuffle and pull, I think.
Judika: I shuffle one full. Okay. I, I did shuffle. You know I did. I mean, they are well shuffled, but let me shuffle just a little, little bit more and let's see what we've got. Okay, so this is the front of the card?
Risa: Can you describe it?
Judika: Yeah. Hold on. This card. Well, I can in a minute because my eyes are not what they used to be. Now I'm gonna turn on the flashlight on my phone so I can really see the card. It is a [01:13:00] series of, moon phases with the full moon in the middle. So I dunno if you can see. And the waxing and waning moons with one large snake, it sort of sinuously right in front of it.
That's serpentine lunar energy. And the information in the back is about bells. Ring those bells. And I'm, I am going to read you the back of the card. It says, the sound of clanging metal is believed to rule, to cleanse the atmosphere, banish low level malicious spirits, and provide protection for those within listening range. In a pinch, you can bang pots and pans, but metal bells are ancient and more subtle instruments of magical protection one. Give some instructions here, cleanse the bells by passing them through [01:14:00] incense smoke. Two, charge the bells with intent. Hold them and tell them what you seek. And for just in case with somebody who has never charged anything, you, you traditionally use your left hand or your non-dominant hand and you, you hold it in your hand.
You know, clo I close my eyes. You don't have to, but I mean, I, I find it helpful. Hold it in your hand. Keep your eyes closed and focus on what you want. The bell or whatever item you're, you can do this with anything. What do you, what, what is the goal? What do you want it to do? Like, tell it what you want to do. Like, you know, maybe if you had a, a living companion, a dog, often you'll tell the dog I'm scared. Sit at the front door and like bark or something. And you, you're basically telling this what seems to be an anani. [01:15:00] Object, but I'm an animist and everything's got a consciousness and you are telling it. You know, I want you to cleanse the space. I want you to, you know, re remove all toxins, psychic toxins, all spiritual danger, what whatever it is that you wanted to do and last, hang them as needed. Pay attention if they ring spontaneously. You can also wear tiny bells as jewelry. You can also just ring. I mean, I actually don't have metal bells here. I have some Japanese clay bells not far from where I'm sitting, but this is for metal bells. And you just, you can ring them, ring them as needed, or you know, you can wear them, you can wear them as jewelry, you can wear them attached to your clothing. Pay attention if they ring spontaneously because they are talking to you once you've charged it. And. You know, [01:16:00] don't ignore it. Now if it starts ringing, and you know, obviously if there's a breeze, okay, that's why it's ringing. But if you can't see, if it's just ringing and you don't know why it's ringing, well then pay attention and, and, and see what, you know, what that is. I used to live in Hoboken, New Jersey, which at that time was a very old Italian community. It's where Frank Sinatra's from and New Year's Eve, people would come out, it's an old customer and they would bang their pots and pans and people who don't know or who don't, you know, respect folk practices, oh, you know, they're just making noise.
But no, it is, you know, that threshold, you're going from the older year to the new year and you wanna cleanse away all that old negativity and that sound of metal, metal against metal. That, that. As much a form of cleansing as a smoke cleansing [01:17:00] or, you know, they're salt cleansing, water cleansing. It's, it's an imp it's an important form.
And I mean, it's one that I love. So here we are, this, you know, full moon we're getting, it's gonna start waning. And the waning moon is really good for banishing. And so what do you need to banish from your life? And it could be danger, it could be personal danger, it could be feelings of unease, could be something else, could be, you know, someone else could be whatever. That, that, that personal use, those little, little metal bells.
Amy: It was so exciting that you pulled that ring, that Bells fora, I imagine specifically because that is so significant for you and has been so significant for you, Risa,
over
the past.
Year or so.
Risa: I got to ring the bell at the end of cancer treatment this year.
Judika: Oh wow. Oh, congratulations.
Risa: Yeah, thank you. That's a strange one. [01:18:00] You know, I didn't wanna do it. At the end of chemo, there were people there who will never finish chemo, but at the end of radiation in a little private room with just my daughter and my husband, we rang a little bell and I feel strongly, I felt a wave. Go through me.
And this will be the, the last thing I say. Before we officially spiral, open the recording part of this circle, and then invite the weavers who are here to get to be with you. Off the record. The listeners for sa At this thin veil time, when there is so much of a sense of danger, ring your fucking bells.
Ring your bells to protect your home, to protect your neighbors. Bang on pots and pans, declare safety, give each other courage. [01:19:00] Call in what we need next, the little lantern that you are. And we love you. And bless if I can be.
All right. I'll stop recording if you have a little more time, we would love to get
Judika: I do,
Risa: Yay.
Judika: I, I, you, you, you're just wonderful. I, this has been very profound.
Risa: Oh.
Judika: See you.
